So I'm making a Wild Shape focused Druid who simply speaking wants to become as large as physically possible as far as the rules allow it.
Now I know that "Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack", as described in the Enlarge Person spell and the general polymorph spell rules.
So what happens if someone were to make Enlarge Person permanent on the Druid using a Permanency spell? Considering the RAW, this would mean the Druid would never be able to use her Wild Shape ability again! Unless, I guess, when she chooses to become a Large creature, which is allowed since she is already large.
Am I reading this right? Or is there another way to achieve this? It'd be so awesome to play as a Gargantuan creature, but I guess I'm not the first person who tried this.
Why wouldn't you be able to use wildshape after becoming a large?
But, let's say you could become a Gargantuan, the easiest way I think would be to start off as a large PC and get someone to cast Mythic Enlarge person and then permanency. Otherwise I think the max you could be is a Huge creature from medium.
Wildshape gives you specific sizes. It does not matter that you are Large druid in your humanoid form - you will become a creature of size specified by your wild shape.
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I usually read it that Enlarge Person and Wild Shape size "increases" stack because the latter isn't actually a size increase, it a size setter. Regardless of your original size, your size when wild shaping becomes ___ based on your form choice. Then enlarge applies on top of that for +1. This is true even if enlarge is applied first.
Since polymorph effects dispel each-other, you can only have one size setting effect. Because size increases do not stack, only one of those will matter. The biggest (paizo-only, non-mythic) size increase that I know off-hand is +1 size, a tie between many spells like Divine Vessel, Righteous Might, Animal Growth, and Enlarge Person. Because of these two put together, the largest size you can reach is Gargantuan unless you are naturally Gargantuan, then you can use the size increase effects to reach Colossal.
Do note that the ability score bonuses provided by both size setters and size increases are size bonuses, and those do not stack. But the penalties do stack! So prepare to have terrible dexterity.\
TL;DR - Druids can still wild shape just fine with a permanent enlarge, they just end up one size bigger than the option they selected and the bonuses don't stack. As a silly aside, this means you can't turn into normal-sized animals anymore as you'll always end up one size bigger than the thing you tried to turn into.
You bring up a good point Stabby.
Like you said, the Transmutation [Polymorph] rules state that "You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell."
..and Enlarge Person is merely a Transmutation spell, not a Polymorph spell, so it wouldn't come into conflict with the Polymorph rules.
But then again, there is the "Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack" rule and both Wild Shape and Enlarge Person are magical effects. I don't think my GM would honestly think of "setting" and "increasing" your size as different effects. I mean, they still, relatively speaking, increase the size of your character, by the definition of the word.
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I'm almost positive Wild Shape would simply ignore the effects of Enlarge Person, as while it is not a polymorph effect, Wild Shape specifically is. Since polymorph effects do not allow you to be effected by other size-changing spells or effects, it simply doesn't change anything about how you're effected by Wild Shape.
You absolutely can still be effected by Wild Shape, you simply don't receive the bonuses or size increase from Enlarge Person while you're in Wild Shape.
- Medium Druid under the effects of Wild Shape at level 8 - Medium size normally, Large size in Wild Shape
- Medium Druid under the effects of both Permanent Enlarge Person and Wild Shape at level 8 - Large size normally, Large size in Wild Shape
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You bring up a good point Stabby.
Like you said, the Transmutation [Polymorph] rules state that "You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell."
..and Enlarge Person is merely a Transmutation spell, not a Polymorph spell, so it wouldn't come into conflict with the Polymorph rules.
But then again, there is the "Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack" rule and both Wild Shape and Enlarge Person are magical effects. I don't think my GM would honestly think of "setting" and "increasing" your size as different effects. I mean, they still, relatively speaking, increase the size of your character, by the definition of the word.
Sure, they're "increases"... unless you're already a Gargantuan creature, then they're always size decreases. Only a diminutive creature can claim they will only increase size when polymorphed. I'd rather not have to say that whether effect A and B stack is dependent on what your natural size category is, so I just let them stack.
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Actually, nevermind, found a part of the rules I didn't know was there:
In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.
This means that Enlarge Person, though not dispelled, has no effect when you Wild Shape, leaving you at perfectly normal wild shape stats. It wouldn't block wild shape at all.
Sucks for those that just want to use Alter Self to appear like race X while using Righteous Might, but works great for a druid that gets hit by reduce person (which would do absolutely nothing until they left wild shape).
Alright, I think that pretty much settles it. Thanks guys :)
