One of the things I notice in most games I play in (and sometimes the ones I run) is that sometimes there'll be a thieves guild (usually to antagonize the PCs), a church (for the divine PCs to have meaningful interactions, provide restorative spells), often times a mage's guild (for the arcane PCs to have meaningful interactions, copy spells from). But it's hard to write in some sort of martial guild.
You can put in a mercenary group, but the PCs usually aren't looking to hire, they're the heroes of the story after all.
So what kind of organization would you like to encounter when you're playing a martial character (or have enjoyed encountering in games)? What quests could this guild/dojo offer?
What if you could broaden your skill at this organization, like Wizards can copy spells, a character with all martial weapons could spend some time (and gold) to learn an exotic weapon, or expand Weapon Focus to another weapon?
I can't recall, since I don't have the books handy, if it was the black spine 2nd edition books or something in 3rd edition that delved into this concept with groups called Affiliations.
It was a a set of rules that let you setup organizations/guilds the pcs could join and gain and lose reputation with. As they unlocked levels of prestige they gained small perks that were granted by the organization.
Well, a generic adventurer's guild would probably suffice. Just have random selection of basic quests on the wall. That should be non-binding enough for most parties. And giving a selection of small scenarios lets the party pick the basic premise of what they are doing (although it might not end up quite as they expect when they get there)
At low levels, the majority of such a guild would be martial characters, with the occasional drop out from the mages' or thieves' guilds here and there. It doesn't need to be exclusive- just have the guild mainly deal with things where it is more natural for a martial character to handle things.
After having the guild deal with things at the level range where martials do most of the work, and then have the party go onto bigger and better things past that once they get to mid levels (presumably the main thread of the campaign).
Maybe have the random quest notices on the wall have small connections hinting at a larger problem (example- I lot of undead start forming and the guild has been dealing with it case by case- may lead to a campaign where you find a lich trying to activate a necromantic artifact, and the energies from this process have flooded the region and allowed lesser undead to form more easily)
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The problem is that guilds for other classes actually PRODUCE something the PCs can use:
Thieves' Guild: they might have poisons, access to black market goods, etc.
Wizards School: arcane spellcasters can learn spells, buy spells/scrolls/wands, items can be enchanted and so on
Church/Temple: the party might buy spell use, healing potions, learn divine mysteries or the like
Martial types aren't dependent on anything but weapons and armor which, unless magical are usually available everywhere. If they're magic weapons and armor they probably aren't being mass produced and might even be the purview of individual merchants or even the Wizards School or the Church/Temple.
I would postulate then that martial guilds either:
1. be incorporated with other guilds
2. grant martials a unique resource they specifically can use
Some examples might be:
- Order of Earthlore: a dwarven sect embodying the faiths of Abadar, Erastil, Nethys and Pharasma, the Order of Earthlore are militant protectors of weapons and lore pertaining to the destruction of dragons. The order however often trains and employs those who may not have the same zeal for the divine their full members do; often their field agents aren't even people of faith at all. The Order feels this helps manage corruption in their ranks. These agents however are rigorously tested to ensure they are up to the tasks needed to battle the scourge of dragonkind. In game terms: the PC can utilize this group like a standard Church/Temple type guild. In addition martial types may train with the group to be one of their agents, receiving a +1 to any attack roll made against creatures with the Dragon type.
Now what does membership look like and how is it maintained? That I don't know. I'm sure there's dozens of supplemental mechanics on this topic. In 3x D&D there were Organizations in the PHBII but I'm sure there's other rule sets.
For me personally I'd create an entry requirement, like a battery of tests or missions or whatever; something more than just "pay gold/get in" to make it special for the players. Once they're in the organization then I'd create levels of membership. Maybe something like:
2. Agent Membership: to achieve this level you must have achieved a notable success in the name of the guild while also donating a treasure of at least 300 GP. At this level you may choose one of the benefits associated with the guild as listed above. Maintaining this level of membership requires the yearly due and undertaking one quest/year in the name of the guild
3. Leadership Membership: To achieve this level you must have at least 7 ranks in a skill associated with the guild and be an Agent in good standing in the guild. At this level you gain a second benefit associated with the guild as listed above; you also gain the Leadership feat as a Bonus feat but your Cohort and Followers must be drawn from guild members. Maintaining this level of membership requires the yearly due as well as an oath to never refuse a quest in the name of the guild.
The problem is that guilds for other classes actually PRODUCE something the PCs can use...
There are other reasons to form a guild, although shared resources are a rather good one.
Here are other main reasons to form a guild, which can go for any guild (and trade union today, I suppose)-
1. guarantee of quality
2. protection from abuse by clients
3. shared pool of political influence
With one, the guarantee of quality comes from the fact that the guild doesn't pick up any farmer that picks up a sword. There can be entry tests, as well as continued training to improve the general skills of all members. That, combined with a ranking system perhaps (based upon completed assignments and difficulty of assignments) can tell those that hire these warriors 'yes, they can complete this job'.
It also means that unscrupulous members can face sanctions, and possibly lose guild membership. The idea that your bodyguards might betray you and steal your goods, with no one ever knowing, is a serious concern when you are just hiring random people with a reputation. But with the contract records held by the guild, it is much more likely someone is going to ask 'what happened to that merchant you were supposed to be guarding?'
This protection of course goes both ways- the guild will hold clients to their contract, and as such they can't skimp you on the fees, or force you to do something illegal for your pay. Contracts and general guild policy likely hold protection that allows you to back out if things are getting shady, or if the 'protect me from muggers' mission suddenly turns into 'oh, and I am taking a detour through DRAGON DEATH VALLEY'.
A shared pool of political interest comes from the fact that the guild, which should generally set itself up as the main private provider of protection, can have its members withold services, allowing now defenseless merchants to place pressure on the government. That can give them some leeway if there are 'unfortunate misunderstandings' when a member gets into a barfight, for example. It also means that the guild knows who to contact and how to contact them if clients are caught up in some weird political struggle. Also, as guards, the members might end up witnessing some....sensitive scenes... that could give them leverage against certain rich and powerful people (the thieves' guild don't have a monopoly on blackmail)
Also, if we are looking at more tangible resources and services the guild can provide- it can negotiate with the mages' guild and the church to trade guards in return for cheap magical items. Providing muscle (...meatshields) when they have to exterminate undead or gather valuable material components, and in return they give access to healing potions and magical weapons at a discount. Having a hold on a valuable resource like reliable manpower can give them a certain degree of clout with other guilds in order to protect each others' interests.
The problem I see Lem-dawg is that the stuff above isn't anything a good, selfish murder-hobo can't do themselves.
1. Guarantee of quality: by leveling up they have this guarantee and if someone flim-flams them, murder.
2. Protection from abuse by clients: my +2 flaming greatsword is nicknamed "Insurance"
3. Shared pool of political influence: politics? I don't understand; is that a different dungeon?
Guilds like what you're describing are great flavor, fun for certain types of gamers or great justifications for NPC actions/abilities. Some players however will find no use for price fixing, contract negotiations and ransom payment.
The 4th point you make gets closer to what some players need: measurable reward for investment. If I'm going to join a group, what's in it for me? At this point you enter the realm of:
NPC Boons
Additional Traits
Competency bonuses on Skills
Reduced item pricing
Other benefits
Now Mega-L I'm not saying that guilds such that you suggest shouldn't exist. I'm merely suggesting that for some players this is just fluff.
3- yes, it is a dungeon filled with some of the worst traps imaginable (like political marriages *BAM* I'm here all week, tip your waitress)
Alright a revised list for more general game play issues
1. Connections to other guilds for cheaper access to magical items. Possibly allowing you to commission things.
2. Access to human resources and connections. Possibility to get specialized NPCs (like a researcher with a ton of knowledge skills who is otherwise useless in a fight). Or perhaps just general information (list of usual monsters in the area you are going to; perhaps bare bones info like DR and type)
3. Leadership that knows who you need to talk to for your current task (in game play terms...this might end up being the fortune teller in videogames that always tells you where the next plot point is...)
4. Someone to pay bail money when you get caught by the guards for... whatever.
5. Depending on the circumstances- someone to deliver specialized goods (scrolls of restoration, +1 holy or ghost touch weapons, scroll of banishment) while you stay on the current task. For a fee, of course, but being able to just send a message and getting it delivered seems like a nice option
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One of the things I notice in most games I play in (and sometimes the ones I run) is that sometimes there'll be a thieves guild (usually to antagonize the PCs), a church (for the divine PCs to have meaningful interactions, provide restorative spells), often times a mage's guild (for the arcane PCs to have meaningful interactions, copy spells from). But it's hard to write in some sort of martial guild.
You can put in a mercenary group, but the PCs usually aren't looking to hire, they're the heroes of the story after all.
So what kind of organization would you like to encounter when you're playing a martial character (or have enjoyed encountering in games)? What quests could this guild/dojo offer?
What if you could broaden your skill at this organization, like Wizards can copy spells, a character with all martial weapons could spend some time (and gold) to learn an exotic weapon, or expand Weapon Focus to another weapon?
Some of the prestige classes require memberships in organized martial groups. If you're looking for mechanical aspects I'd start with them.
Lem-a-Lem-a-Ding-Dong: I like #'s 2 and 5 in your post and it's something I never thought of before. What is the main issue with being a martial? Certain weapons hit certain things, so you have to have the RIGHT tool for the job. Most PCs just golf bag it and carry a magic weapon, cold iron weapon, silver weapon, bludgeoning, etc.
If you've joined a special guild and consult w/them before adventures you could get advanced intel on likely monsters and their weaknesses. Once done the guild might outfit you with the right weapons right there or in the field.
I could imagine a scene where the dwarf fighter is just about to enter a tomb. The likely monsters were skeletons so he picked up some info and is carrying a dwarven longhammer on loan from the guild but on the final leg of the journey they learned there's a shadow controlling the tomb. He opens a scroll (really a wondrous item that allows him to communicate with the guild) and jots a request for a ghost-touch weapon. Moments later an agent, teleported to his location, jogs up and hands off a +1 Ghost Touch Greataxe along with a stern warning not to lose, break or even dirty the device on pain of expulsion and fines.
Kind of like having the ability to call in an airstrike.
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OH, or how about bane weapons on loan? The kind of thing that is great to have when it is needed, but it seems kind of a waste to buy a decent one to carry all the time?
Having them for rent seems like a great option. Heck, that is the main concept behind one of the inquisitor's class features (balance wise, since that cheapens the inquisitor's bane ability, you might want to tweak it a bit so it gives an extra +1 and 1d6 on existing bane so they are not made mostly obsolete...unless there is already something for these situations in rules; not an expert)
Of course, confusing the situation sometimes and having the players deal can also be a part of the adventure's challenge. Making you think that you are facing zombies, when it is really that one weird plant based 'not-a-zombie' is something you should expect, since accurate intel gathering can often be a tricky thing.
1) Fighter's guild, act like hireable muscle but also train members and provide free lodge to members
2) a Noble's Court, for the more aristocratic martials
3) Dojo/training field/Range, locations where martials go to collect and train
4) Bars, might not seem like something special, but just like certain bars in cities are for cops/sailors/what have you, there's probably a few that specifically cater to warriors of various professions.
5) PMCs, technically these would just be mercenary companies with the size of historical mercenary groups. They provide large scale jobs, protection, or help kingdoms fight their wars, in exchange they gain loot from the battlefield and a large paycheck. Always looking for powerful new hires for special jobs.
6) Hunter's Guild, if you played the Witcher, kinda like them, it's a guild with the specific intent of killing and slaying dangerous monsters, and thus have equipment stocked specifically for this purpose along with libraries and other facilities to create poisons, procure specific herbs and reagents or research weaknesses.
edit: i see people say that most other's provide something to PCs.
I'm going to debate that claim, at best churches have something, and that's restoration on demand. the rest you can just buy from who ever.
what guilds actually provide to PCs is work, plain and simple.
Organizations available from Rite Publishing include:
#30 Mercenary Companies which uses the Mass Combat system from Ultimate Campaign.
Way of the Yakuza, while very specific to Japanese criminal organizations, there are rules to creating a custom yakuza gang that can easily be refluffed to criminal gangs and thieves guilds in any culture.
While it might take a bit more than a refluff, I think the creation rules could work for any kind of guild.
Way of the Samurai (PFRPG) includes its own rules from creating a custom samurai clan. These can easily be refluffed to represent any noble house.
Both the custom organization design rules are based off the City Stat Block.
OH, or how about bane weapons on loan? The kind of thing that is great to have when it is needed, but it seems kind of a waste to buy a decent one to carry all the time?
Having them for rent seems like a great option. Heck, that is the main concept behind one of the inquisitor's class features (balance wise, since that cheapens the inquisitor's bane ability, you might want to tweak it a bit so it gives an extra +1 and 1d6 on existing bane so they are not made mostly obsolete...unless there is already something for these situations in rules; not an expert)
Of course, confusing the situation sometimes and having the players deal can also be a part of the adventure's challenge. Making you think that you are facing zombies, when it is really that one weird plant based 'not-a-zombie' is something you should expect, since accurate intel gathering can often be a tricky thing.
At higher levels the Inquisitor's Bane becomes 4d6+2 instead of 2d6+2, so there's that.
Hmmm, what an interesting concept! It's not something I've thought of in a long time. My mind's eye envisions something like cavalier orders but not...
Each 'order' would have a minimum requirement of membership, either by alignment, profession, philosophy, social status, or any combination of what's mention and maybe not mentioned. Membership by invitation and may or may not require a donation or fee.
There would be chapter houses or lodges in most major cities where lodging would be available. Meals, gear maintenance, a lodge bar, a loot to cash exchange, maybe a brothel, etc. Nothing free, but heavily discounted.
Members would be identified by symbol, oath, secret handshake, or something similar. Imposters would be dealt with harshly.
There would be a 'no violence' clause at each lodge, even between sworn enemies that are members of the same order.
It's a wonderful concept and easy to imagine a order dedicated to brothers and sisters trying to solve the riddle of steel.
There are all sorts of modern day equivalent examples: Masonic Lodge, Knights of Columbus, American Legion, VFW, etc. Those are just some examples that popped into my head.
Imagine Joe the Merc travels from Korvosa to Magnimar. He's a member of the Steel Brothers a fraternity for swordsmen for hire. He makes it to Magnimar and checks in at the local chapter house for the Steel Brothers. There he makes some contacts for future work, gets a discounted room, some cheap meals and ale, a clean whore, and his sword sharpened by a professional. His membership is in good standing as he's been paying his annual dues. Plus, he gets to socialize with like minded mercenaries.
Probably the best example in fiction I've read regarding this topic is Dave Duncan's Reluctant Swordsman books.