Reach Weapons and Adjacent Attacks

[Fundin Strongarm]

I've going to play an Oradin (Oracle/Paladin healer build) and had decided to use a two-handed weapon to give some decent damage. I thought I might try a reach weapon but was concerned about not being able to attack adjacent targets.

Is this much of a problem in normal play? Can you take 5 ft steps in most circumstances so that the issue disappears?

I was thinking of using a glaive but might use a great sword or falchion instead.

[lemeres]

I see little difference between the enemy taking a 5' step towards you to avoid AoOs and an enemy taking a 5' step away from you to avoid AoOs.

But since you are dipping a class with martial weapons, you might as well grab some armor spikes. There- now they can't get cute.

Anyway- REACH IS AMAZING. Just in general. It can have a lot of tactical depth. Besides the fact that you turn yourself into a circle of pain 25' across, feats like lunge and pushing assault can give a new dimension where you set up AoOs against melee opponents.

[Joe M.]

Reach builds are a lot of fun. In my experience it's not distance but cover that's the biggest tactical worry, but <there's a feat for that> now.

Basic reach build:

Dex 14, Str as high as you can get it

Power Attack
Combat Reflexes
Phalanx Formation
Weapon Focus

Bardiche or Glaive (I prefer Bardiche for the 19–20 threat range)
Armor Spikes

[Joe M.]

The one thing, though, is that Paladin/Oracles can be pretty strapped for feats (if I remember correctly). If you check the build and the four-feat investment outlined above doesn't look manageable, just go with a falchion or greatsword and skip Phalanx Formation and Combat Reflexes.

[Exguardi]

There are some circumstances where the tactical positioning with a reach weapon becomes awkward. The majority of the time, however, the additional reach will be a significant boon. One thing I will note that is incredibly helpful is to attain Large size. This has its own spacing issues, but the increase to reach is a massive boost to your ability to control the battlefield as a martial character, and you can even avoid a number of cover situations due to the increased height/reach.

As a paladin, you have Smite which goes a long way toward lessening the pain of occasionally needing to "fall back" to armor spikes. You can pick up the ability to enlarge yourself a number of ways, such as by using an archetype to attain a domain on your paladin side (Growth is particularly useful), or by using revelations or higher-level divine magic on your oracle side (depending on your level distribution).

[lemeres]

Exguardi wrote:

There are some circumstances where the tactical positioning with a reach weapon becomes awkward. The majority of the time, however, the additional reach will be a significant boon. One thing I will note that is incredibly helpful is to attain Large size. This has its own spacing issues, but the increase to reach is a massive boost to your ability to control the battlefield as a martial character, and you can even avoid a number of cover situations due to the increased height/reach.

As a paladin, you have Smite which goes a long way toward lessening the pain of occasionally needing to "fall back" to armor spikes. You can pick up the ability to enlarge yourself a number of ways, such as by using an archetype to attain a domain on your paladin side (Growth is particularly useful), or by using revelations or higher-level divine magic on your oracle side (depending on your level distribution).

I suppose...but when you are large and use a reach weapon, then the adjacent square problem is an actual major concern. Because you would need to move back 10' in order to attack with the reach weapon, and that means you can't full attack.

[Fundin Strongarm]

The feats might not be too much of a problem but getting Dex above 12. Planning a Half-Elf.

[Joe M.]

Quick and easy 20 point buy:

Str 18 [= 16+2]
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 08
Cha 14

Alternatively, drop Str to 17 to raise Con to 14

[Fundin Strongarm]

Oradin needs Cha so was hoping for a 16 there. I will need to see the exact point buy we will be using from my DM. 17 Str is no problem though. I will need to ponder the dual needs of Combat Reflexes and highish Dex for a decent reach build.

[Prometeus]

You oculd try a human Paladin with the variant multi class of a Oracle, and by level 3 you will have Life link for 1 person and Power attack and combat reflexes. With this build you also have full paladin progression

[Fundin Strongarm]

Oh. I forgot to add: isn't Furious Focus a fairly "necessary" Feat for two-handed builds after Power Attack?

[Fundin Strongarm]

Prometeus wrote:

You oculd try a human Paladin with the variant multi class of a Oracle, and by level 3 you will have Life link for 1 person and Power attack and combat reflexes. With this build you also have full paladin progression

Hmm... Is there a link to this variant?

[kestral287]

Fundin Strongarm wrote:

Oh. I forgot to add: isn't Furious Focus a fairly "necessary" Feat for two-handed builds after Power Attack?

Not really.

In particular it doesn't help Reach builds much at all since you're more likely to attack off of AoOs than actual attack actions. It's nice to have for when you are swinging, but necessary? No.

[lemeres]

kestral287 wrote:

Fundin Strongarm wrote:

Oh. I forgot to add: isn't Furious Focus a fairly "necessary" Feat for two-handed builds after Power Attack?

Not really.

In particular it doesn't help Reach builds much at all since you're more likely to attack off of AoOs than actual attack actions. It's nice to have for when you are swinging, but necessary? No.

It raises the chance for your first attack to hit...which doesn't help too much, since that is the hit that is most likely to hit anyway.

If it worked on any single hit of your choice, then it would be godly, since you would just make your BAB-5 or BAB-10 hit much more accurate. But unfortunately, that is not how it works. So it is merely a 'kind of nice' feat.

[Prometeus]

Fundin Strongarm wrote:

Prometeus wrote:

You oculd try a human Paladin with the variant multi class of a Oracle, and by level 3 you will have Life link for 1 person and Power attack and combat reflexes. With this build you also have full paladin progression

Hmm... Is there a link to this variant?

Dont have a link to this variant multiclass thing because because is a new material that came with the unchained book and isnt on the referene page, but if you choose Oracle as a secondary class you lose the 3, 7, 11, 15 and 19 level feat and at level 1 you gain a mystery and at level 3 you gain a revelation, so you can choose Life mystery and Life Link revelation and a bunch of other things

Oracle VMC

Spoiler:

A character who chooses oracle as her secondary class gains the following secondary class features.

Mystery: At 1st level, she must select a mystery. She never qualifies for the Extra Revelation feat.

Curse: At 1st level, she must select a curse. She gains all effects of the curse, treating her effective oracle level as equal to 1/2 her character level.

Revelation: At 3rd level, she gains one of the following revelations from the list of those available to her mystery as an oracle of her character level – 6 (minimum 1). She must have an effective oracle level high enough to select the revelation.

Orison: At 7th level, if she has a Charisma score of 10 or higher, she chooses an oracle orison to cast as a spell-like ability at will. She uses her character level as the caster level and Charisma as the orison’s key ability score.

Curse Focus: At 11th level, she adds 5 to her effective oracle level for the purposes of determining her curse’s effects.

Improved Revelation: At 15th level, she gains one additional revelation.

Greater Revelation: At 19th level, she gains one additional revelation.

[blackbloodtroll]

Well, just get some Armor Spikes.

You will threaten adjacent squares just fine.