Well, with Pathfinder Unchained coming out with its own version of automatic character bonuses, I figured it was time to update my own houserule and clean it up a little. Without further ado, I present...
Why the different version names? Well, it's currently Version 5 of the houserule, but this is Version 2 of the thread. I figured I'd start a new thread, rather than necro the old one, especially since now I can put a link to the Google Doc right in the first post. (Of course, if/when I ever make a Version 6, this will all become outdated, but that won't be for a while, right?)
There are three main changes from Version 4:
1) Some rebalancing of when characters get what bonuses.
2) Using this houserule only costs 1/2 of your WBL, not 3/5ths. Less bookkeeping, and only slightly more powerful; still near the power of vanilla Pathfinder.
3) Using an extended Point Buy system instead of enhancement/inherent bonuses for ability scores. Trades one set of numbers to keep track of with another set of numbers to keep track of, but this way your characters don't have to use Sovereign Glue on their belt and headband so that their stats don't suddenly plummet when they get undressed at night.
Several people on the forums inspired me and gave good advice for this houserule already, but I have to especially credit Charender for suggesting the Extended Point Buy system; thank you!
I should mention that I still haven't had time to playtest any of this (I've been rather busy with school and work for the last several months), so this is still all conceptual; I'd appreciate any constructive feedback on these rules.
So, what do you think? Is the Extended Point Buy system too much extra number-crunching to be worth it? Is this too overpowered in an otherwise regular Pathfinder game? How does it compare to the Pathfinder Unchained rules? Please let me know in your replies!
P.S. This is my insecurity talking, but that Google Docs link is anonymous, right? I'd rather not just show my Google account and email address to everyone on the Internet.
To ease your insecurity, yes, the link is anonymous.
As for the system... The extended point buy is weak compared to standard stat boost via treasure, at least on 1st assessment.
Also, I don't like how much it messes with standard spells. Overall it seems pretty workable, though probably a bit on the low end of the power curve.
Shadrayl - Weak? I wasn't expecting to hear that. I did spend a while comparing it to regular stat boosts at different levels to see how it added up, and this actually comes out ahead of stat boosts and the increase every 4 levels, at least for characters who don't just boost one ability score at every opportunity. But yes, the numbers may need adjusting; I just wasn't expecting to hear that I might need to adjust them to be higher!
Also, standard spells: Are you talking about the rewrite on the animal buff spells, Wish, and Greater Magic Weapon? I tried to make it as little work as possible, but maybe I should simplify the wording. The goal of those rewrites is simply: "Almost every spell that duplicated gear bonuses, even temporarily, doesn't do that anymore."
Hence the no-inherent Wish, the buffed Greater Magic Weapon, and the actually-useful animal buffs. I'm sorry if it seems like a lot of work, but it's just to modify some of the spells to work with this houserule without changing their entire function.
I agree with Shadrayl. I did some number crunching, as I was looking for something like this myself. I know the numbers are debatable and I'd be interested to learn how you came to yours.
At 15th level, a SAD wizard's ability scores correspond to point-buy 91.
Str 7
Dex 18 (14, +4 enhancement)
Con 18 (14, +4 enhancement)
Int 26 (17, +6 enhancement, +3 advancement points)
Wis 10
Cha 7
Assuming 1/3 of character's wealth goes into stat enhancers, which is a reasonable assumption for a wizard.
In comparison, the MAD monk fares worse (point-buy 80), and that's assuming the same resource investment. Which isn't very realistic, since monks also need their AoMF and other expensive gear.
Str 22 (16, +4 enhancement, +2 advancement)
Dex 18 (13, +4 enhancement, +1 advancement)
Con 18 (14, +4 enhancement)
Int 7
Wis 18 (14, +4 enhancement)
Cha 7
Now, if the aim is to make the system less biased towards SAD characters, I would give everyone the higher point-buy.
Amanuensis - I did some number-crunching of my own on this one. I have at least 5 pages of notes on this (double-sided), detailing various builds at different levels and which point buys would be appropriate for each. That's not to say that I'm right on this one, but these numbers have not just been pulled out of a hat. Yes, most completely SAD characters are somewhat nerfed with the point buy system; less so if they actually increase their secondary stats (like Dex and Con for wizards).
I will freely admit some bias on my part, as I don't like the idea of a character focusing completely on one stat; even my witches and wizards don't put everything they have into Int. And yes, this is also to help the caster-martial class disparity (aka, Operation: Nerf Da Squishies), so that martial characters, and especially monks, don't feel as ability-score starved as their caster companions.
As for the actual amount of points to spend at any given level: Like I said before, I've done a bit of homework on it, but that doesn't mean it's perfect. The main way the final numbers were arrived at was using a hypothetical character build that increased 5 ability scores evenly, leaving the 6th at 10 until the late levels. I then used levels 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20 as benchmarks, rounding the numbers (usually up a little), and smoothing out the power curves between those benchmarks.
I really like this Extended Point Buy system a lot, so I'd like to keep it in. The question is, do I increase the points available, giving MAD characters a definite buff from vanilla Pathfinder? Or do I keep the points where they are, giving SAD characters a definite debuff from vanilla Pathfinder?
See, in vanilla Pathfinder, ability score costs are mostly linear: The stat-boosting gear has exponential costs, but the +1/4 levels and inherent bonuses are completely linear, favoring putting all of them into a single stat. Point buy, on the other hand, is completely exponential, so the ability scores always get more costly as they go higher. I know this is a serious departure from vanilla Pathfinder, but I personally like it, so I'd rather not remove it if I don't have to. That being said, how would you change the numbers? I'll have to go over this with a hypothetical wizard build, and see how the numbers compare.
EDIT: P.S. Are you including the Original Point Buy in the above math? The points everyone starts with to create their level 1 ability scores? The table in YANYG doesn't include those points, so the total points you have to work with at any given level equals the table, plus your Original Point Buy amount, which is usually 15, 20, or 25 points.
Thanks for your explanation, I mostly agree with your analysis.
And while I disagree with the concept of caster-martial-disparity, I am interested in a system that is less biased towards SAD characters. And I am not happy with the current system - after character creation, players have only little agency when it comes to developing their characters' stats. Instead, I would prefer a system that allows players to customize their characters as they advance, like the one proposed by you.
I think raising the point-buy-total is actually more in favor of MAD characters/PCs with balanced stats. That is why I would propose reverse-engineering the wizard's build and giving that amount to all characters.
In my (admittedly simplifying) example, if the monk had 11 more points to spend, he could either increase one of his secondary ability scores by 2, or he could increase his Intelligence score, so he has more out-of-combat options.
I haven't come up with a progression table yet, which is why I am very interested in your approach (However, I would spread out those 4 points gained at 4th level over the first levels: 1 at 2nd, 1 at 3rd, 2 at 4th. That way, minmaxers have to wait a little longer before they can increase their primary ability score).
In my example, I assumed point-buy 15 and I included that in my numbers.
Okay, updated the Point Buy table to the following. I'll update the Google Doc in another few days, because I don't want to have to keep relinking it every day or two, especially if there are other parts that need rewriting/explaining.
Level Point Buy
1 0
2 1
3 2
4 4
5 8
6 12
7 16
8 20
9 25
10 30
11 35
12 45
13 50
14 60
15 70
16 80
17 90
18 100
19 135
20 175
Amanuensis - So, for example, your 91-point wizard is 91 points total, which is 76 points on top of the OPB. In YANYG, a 15th-level wizard has 70 points on top of their OPB to spend, making the point buy 85 points total. So it is a nerf to a SAD character (the wizard would have to probably drop Con down to 16, or Int down to 25), but not a severe one. On the other hand, the monk gets buffed from 80 points to 70+15 = 85 points total.
Oh, and a note I should put into the Google doc: Characters may save these points between levels. So if you don't want to spend that one point at level 2, just save it until level 3 or 4. It does mean you have to write it down somewhere on your character sheet; I'd suggest just underneath the ability scores.
Alright, that sounds good. I might try a few other builds at different levels to see how it checks out.
For the record, if I star the document and then check my G-Drive file list, I can see the name you gave to Google, but I can't see to which email address it's linked.
With my version, I just say it doesn't stack.
You can use all the existing tables, modules, and adventure paths.
Every even level they get +1 to hit and damage(max +5), +1 deflection bonus(max +8), or +1 to an ability score(max +8 to each ability).
Since it doesn't stack, after you use a +4 book for your strength and +4 for your level bonuses to strength, a belt of strength or a book of strength is useless to you. If your strength gets permanently drained 2 points, then you can use a +2 strength book. You could not use a +2 belt of strength since your strength got permanently modified by +2 or more.
Even with your system, I would think a wish could repair a couple points of permanent ability loss. Maybe bull strength will counter temporary strength loss.