"Is Legacy of Fire right for me and my group?" I would really appreciate some answers to help me decide if to run tnis AP!
I am a fan of the desert theme, from the mystical realms of djinns and mirages of treasure oasis, to the palaces of the east and their twisted, shadowy politics to the gritty and unforgiving cruelty of the sun and sands. And spitting camels.
Is Legacy of Fire delivering on these themes adequately? I run Skull and Shackles for my group and it is fantastic, evocative setting mimicking real world age of sail exploration dashed with the impossible legends of the sea, so I look towards this AP with hopes that it'd be as good at creating as strong an atmosphere.
I run a lot of sandboxy homebrew quests, adding npcs and storylines where I can, so Im alright with tweaking the story to link things better/differently.
My players are a good mix of roleplaying-combat, enjoying colourful settings and npcs, playing mostly for a laugh. Some domget attached to their pcs/npcs so would hope there are interesting and recurring npcs. They dont enjoy the fetch quests nor looong dungeon crawls (paizo ap dungeons i generally condense anyway) and appreciate roleplaying opportunities in them (generally through npcs). They do not like to play GOOD characters, but more down to earth ambitions, grey moralities.
Has this AP aged well? Newer books and class options can make aps feel dated without reconverting many npcs and items. Also the use of a sturdy interesting optional system (S&S Infamy) would be a plus (not jade regent caravan, for example)
Finally, can some of these modules be run as one-offs? (similar to city of 7 spears of Serpents Skulls 3) Any modules/other ap books you think fit well?
Thank you in advance :)
A shout to Shaun; if you see this, I noticed you run/play both S&S and LoF and I really like your input in the S&S forums, how do you find this one in comparison?
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My group just entered book five this past week. I'm certainly enjoying it, but I also converted everything to Pathfinder and freely introduced newer elements. Swapping out a sorcerer for an inquisitor, adding appropriate archetypes, and so on.
Thanks for the answer. Something I didnt pick up is that it wasnt unded PF rules 100%. Hopefully it is not much hassle.
Did things needed to be tuned up or down?
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John Mangrum (above) was kind enough to post the great and very thorough conversion to Pathfinder he's describing, so a lot of the work is already done if you want to run by the pathfinder rules.
My group is almost done with book one, and they're having an absolute blast with it, despite a few early misgivings about it being an older path and perhaps not compatible, and some of the players being unfamiliar with the Arabian Nights-theme ...
I think it's a very, very good path, as long as you're prepared to do a small amount of editing (take 3 off all skill-difficulties, mainly, since in 3.5 you could have your CL+3 in any skill).
Heartily recommended.
I think the AP is fantastic generally, but I'll answer specifically to your needs...
- As a positive, the Arabian Nights theme is fantastic. Right from the get go at level 1, the adventures feel larger than life in the ilk of a dashing, heroic, Sinbad meets Aladdin esqe adventure. The Arabic theme of genies, gnolls, fantastic alternate planes of reality, etc, make it feel quite unique in theme. But it's high-magic rather than gritty politics and unforgiving sun, for whatever difference that's worth to you.
- Book 2 and 5 are both enormous dungeon crawls. One with lots of factions in them and lots of potential for interesting roleplaying, but giant dungeon crawls none the less.
- Despite the initial mercenary hook of "You're guards paid to retake Village X", it really is an AP that works best for good aligned adventurers. There's not many shades of grey in the villains or the NPCs. Few of the NPCs will pay out vast hordes of treasure, relying on the PCs to do to job because it's the right thing to do. And selling a particular piece of treasure for the fortune it's worth sort of destroys the AP, because it presumes the PCs won't sell it in favour of exploring and helping people.
- There are no optional subsystems, good or bad, that majorly affect the AP. There's some mass battle stuff at one point, but it's a very minor part.
- Book 4, in which the PCs visit another plane of reality, could be run very effectively, with only minor tweaks, as a one-off module.
Thank you all for the responses and the resources. I have gone ahead and purchased the End of Eternity (only one that's out of print, so I'd have gotten the pdf regardless, and it sounded very interesting).
It is a fantastic read and really delivers on what I was looking after (a little less on the gritty desert but it is book 4 so those problems are a minor bump anyway). Fantastic articles, perfect atmosphere, and definitely something to run as a one off if needed. Wow, I am impressed.
Looks like I have my next AP lined up. Seems to be a lot of space within the AP to include one's own adventures too. I can probably adapt it to cater to more neutral alignments too...coercion, greed, personal ambition, guilt.. are all great tools that often are the morale of the arabian nights stories.
Books 1 and 4 are the definite stand-outs. Really great stuff!
I'd recommend getting "Dark Markets- A guide to Katapesh" as well. It provides some great background and has tons of interesting hooks if you like going sandboxy.
It was especially useful for filling out book 3 which takes place in the capital city, but was kinda meh.
Don't forget the Broken Chains module while the party is in Katapesh (the city).
There is no need for conversion as that module is already PF. It's for L6 characters, so you might need to juggle the level a bit. While it's most easily aimed at a Good party (rescue!), I doubt that even a morally grey character would like what's going on ...
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Legacy of Fire doesn't deliver particular accuracy when it comes to the 1001 Nights feel.
It does the Ray Harryhausen Adventure film perfectly though.
Wes spells this out pretty literally in the forward for the Impossible Eye.
As a big fan of Harryhausen, I have to say I'm glad. His preposterous version of Arabian/Oriental mythology is a much better fit for the game. There are some sexist and racist overtones in the source material that would be really intrusive, I much prefer the high adventure, saturday-morning-cartoon treatment.
For anyone seriously considering a run on LoF, I recommend watching all of the Harryhausen Sinbad films, plus Jason and the Argonauts and hell Clash of the Titans. The more you and your players enjoy those films, the more you'll get out of Legacy of Fire.
Still my favorite adventure path.
However, The Jackal's Price notably botches the promise of Katapesh. I recommend a rewrite of that one.
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I ran a group through it, our campaign ended around the end of February. Our group was killed by Jhavuul in the final room. So we did virtually the entire campaign, as well as a few of the side adventures. The one with the crazy were-leopard in the ruined Temple of Nethys was particularly memorable, even if I have forgotten the adventure's name.
To answer your core question - does it generate the "Arabian Nights" feel. My answer would be that it certainly has the ability to do so. One of the primary duties of a DM, imo, is building and embellishing a setting and a feel. If you have any skill at that, then this will certainly contain the tools for you to do so.
As others have said, buying the Dark Markets book is key. Read and re-read that before the campaign starts. Get to know it well and do your best to project that feel when you speak. And as others have said, you can use the material if you want, in order to expand on The Jackal's Price.
Use every opportunity to describe the heat. Depending on how much you want to play of the Pesh dens, that can also be a good source of building the setting.
Don't just gloss over the desert travels (especially early ones, like the first caravan trip from Katapesh to Kelmarane). Use those trips to establish the setting.
Those themes carry over very well to the City of Brass. But be sure to mentally switch gears when you get to Kakishon. It's paradise after all.
To me, in all honesty, Kakishon and the City of Brass were the highlights of the entire campaign. But YMMV as always. The pugwampis were also certainly memorable - my PC's will be happy if they never see another pugwampi again, which to me means I played them exactly as I had intended. :)
Anyway, to summarize, the Adventure Path works and achieves the purpose for which it was designed. It has plenty of potential for great storytelling and memorable encounters and fights.
I think I've rambled on enough, I hope at least some of it was useful.
Edit: Oh yeah, we ran it using Pathfinder rules too. I found the conversion stuff at
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/fan-conversions/paizo-adventure-paths/
to be very useful in that regard, with a few modifications of my own here and there.
I would recommend ditching the city of brass dungeon and coming up with a more npc interactive adventure in the city of brass.
I haven't actually run LoF, but I presented it as one possibility for my current IRL campaign. I had been planning to use the City of Brass write up from the WotC 3.5 book Planar Handbook
I haven't actually run LoF, but I presented it as one possibility for my current IRL campaign. I had been planning to use the City of Brass write up from the WotC 3.5 book Planar Handbook
As a note, the City of Brass in LoF was presented so as to, if not actually complement, at least not actively contradict The City of Brass boxed set by Necromancer Games (now under the Frog God's shingle).
(Link goes to store page.)
Great ideas. I run Skull and Shackles and Im having trouble advsncing the main storyline because I keep addimg things, notably npcs and side adventures rich with options (diplomacies, combats..) because the setting lends itself so much to it.
I read Kashikon book and loved it...it's sold me into this AP. I'll be looking for as many additions and settings as possible though. (S&S has isle of the shackles, plunder and peril and a tonne of other otber).
Oh and thanks for the conversion link!