OK first off I know the mounted combat rules are a mess and need to be tweaked from what I read on other posts concerning the matter. But my question above is about charging from a huge mount.
First of my character is medium human paladin with a one lvl dip into cavalier. My mount is a large gold dragon with a melee bite with 10ft reach(GM approved).
Ok I know from a recent ruling that both the mount and rider are both considered charging when they take the action to do so and take both the appropriate benefits as well as negatives that come with the standard charge.
Typically when using a medium paladin or caviler to make a charge they use the iconic horse or camel(which doesn't have reach) with the standard lance with reach because of the bonuses.
According to the rules, "you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent."
Given this above that means in order for the rider to get an attack with a reach weapon like a lance the mount must stop in the next to last square of the target of the charge so the lance can hit, but if using a horse or a camel, the mount does not get an attack since it does not have reach.
I do not suffer from this because my pc character has a dragon with a reach bite attack so both of us can attack when doing a mounted charge.
But here comes the problem, I want to take a 1 lvl dip into the mammoth rider prestige class so i can make my dragon mount huge but that would give my dragon a 15ft bite attack and with a lance i would have only a ten foot reach. Now given the interpretation of the rules a few things could happen. Some would say that if i make a charge with my dragon that if I wanted my attack the dragon could not attack given the rules, or i could have the dragon attack on the charge but my paladin would not get an attack due to the reach problem and the closet square rule from charge.
What do you guys think, any feedback would be appreciated.
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It's for this very reason I stopped playing my Cavalier in PFS. In a home game I'd say it's perfectly reasonable to have either the rider or the mount forgo their attack to continue moving forward until their counterpart may make an attack. Or if the mount has a superior natural reach, you could allow both to attack when the rider comes into range. It's not supported by rules, but you seem to already know that following the rules for mounted charging doesn't really work properly, especially if you and your mount have different reach.
Also, I feel some people might have a problem with the mount and rider getting an attack, but that's something that's already possible with the ride skill, and personally, I don't feel like limiting characters to taking mounts that have a 10 reach just so that you can have your PC and AC attack.
thanks for the reply guys, I got the draconic companion or dragon mount from the Dragon Companion Hand Book which is sold in pdf form here on Paizo. I had to have a class with an effective druid lvl, some skill ranks in certain skills and had to pay a couple of feats to get a large gold dragon mount for my paladin. Looking at the bestiary stats in pathfinder, it lists most large dragons has having a 10ft bite attack so my gm approved that for my gold dragon. Hence why I was asking the above question.
As for the Mammoth Rider prestige class it states:
A mammoth rider can choose from among the following animal companions to serve as her loyal steed:
Arsinoitherium, aurochs, baluchitherium, camel, cat (big), elk, horse, mastodon (elephant), megaloceros, rhinoceros, triceratops, wolf, or woolly mammoth (use stats for a mastodon).
A GM might expand this list to include other possible steeds. This steed functions as a druid's animal companion, replacing any animal companion or mount gained from another class. The mammoth rider's class levels stack with other classes that grant an animal companion to determine her effective druid level.
Since my gm approved my dragon I think it can fall under the :include other possible steeds part of the entry.
As for the replacing of the animal companion or mount gained from another class, I don't think it will affect my dragon because it is given to me through a couple of feats and not a class itself.
Of course this is still up to my gm, I will have to talk with him next time my group has our pathfinder night.
I was just wanting to get some input from the boards to see if I was missing or overlooked anything.
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You seem to have a good grasp of the confusing rules.
If your mount has a greater reach than your character, and you wish the mount to make an attack, it must do so from the nearest square that it is able to, which means your character most likely will not get their attack.
But the rules state the mount "may" attack. It does not have to. So you could have it charge to *your* closest available square, so you could attack, forgoing its attack.
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I didn't mean the list of mounts, I figured that would be okay with your GM since he's allowed you a dragon as mount already.
I was talking about the gigantic steed ability which specifically states that the reach increases to 10 ft. Since you are going with a 15 ft. reach on your dragon you are changing the class ability.
I didn't mean the list of mounts, I figured that would be okay with your GM since he's allowed you a dragon as mount already.
I was talking about the gigantic steed ability which specifically states that the reach increases to 10 ft. Since you are going with a 15 ft. reach on your dragon you are changing the class ability.
you may be right, my gm only allowed the dragon to have 10ft bite attack since the bestiary large dragons have them, I naturally thought if I make my mount huge from the the one lvl dip into mammoth rider the 10ft bite attack would change to a 15ft bite attack and the rest of the normal attacks from the claws and wings would be 10ft. All of this could be considered homebrew.
But if even with this you can't ignore the mechanics of the charge even if the rules need to be tweaked hence the reason for me making this post.
Or you can pick up the Lunge feat to simulate having to lean forward
Or you can pick up the Lunge feat to simulate having to lean forward
good idea, don't know if i can take it given that paladins only get the standard feats and no bonus feats. thanks for the idea.
Or you can pick up the Lunge feat to simulate having to lean forwardgood idea, don't know if i can take it given that paladins only get the standard feats and no bonus feats. thanks for the idea.
I mean I only get so many feats and no extra ones, I just got to level 7 and when I hit level 9 I plan to take spirited charge and after that I plan to go take the eldritch heritage feat line so I can have access to the orc sorcerer bloodline abilities. That takes up four feat slots right there. So I planned out my character up until lvl 17 if I get up to the level. My group is playing the Rise of the Runelords campaign right now.