Plant shape into Canopy Creeper: reach grapple

[Ellioti]

When I use plant shape III (either through sorc/wiz, Wildhsape or wood oracle) to transform into a Canopy Creeper, do I get the 100ft reach vines?

How does a ranged grapple work? Can I pin? Can I grapple several enemies at a time?

on a side note, why does plant shape not give Pull and Fast Healing :(?

[FLite]

a successful grapple attack always moves the creature to an empty space adjacent to you. If there is no empty space adjacent to you, the creature is released.

[Bob Bob Bob]

...did you actually read the Canopy Creeper?

Canopy Creeper wrote:

Space 15 ft.; Reach 10 ft. (100 ft. with vine tendrils)

Vine Tendrils (Ex) wrote:

A canopy creeper can take control of any network of vines it has attached itself to and use up to four of those vines as weapons to strike out at targets up to 100 feet away. The vine tendrils have 10 hit points, DR 5/slashing, and a Break DC of 21. If one of these vines is destroyed, the canopy creeper can assume control of another vine as a move action to bring it to bear in combat.

It's an extraordinary ability it has (one which is not granted to you by plant shape).

What do you mean by ranged grapple? If you mean grapple by something with longer reach, grapple automatically moves the grapplee adjacent to the grappler. If you mean grapple with a ranged weapon (the only way I can think of right now is a grappling weapon you throw) it depends on the rules for how you're doing it. With a grappling weapon you can only move or damage.

You still need to make a grapple check to maintain every round (normally a standard action) so you can't grapple multiple things at once unless you have a way to maintain the grapple as less than a standard action (or initiate a new grapple while maintaining the old one somehow).

[FLite]

Note you would not get 100' vine tendrils as that is a power that allows it to control other vines that happen to be in the area. not it's own attacks.

So, you would basically get its beak attack.

[mplindustries]

Yeah, you only get the natural attacks of the creature, not any other Ex, Su, or Sp attacks unless they are specifically listed. You can, however, get 60' reach by becoming a Quickwood.

[Ellioti]

under natural attacks it does say
Ranged 4 vine tendrils +10 (grab plus feed and pull)
So i was under the impression I'd get these attacks

How is that different from the Quickwood's Roots (Ex) power that mplindustries suggested?

One example for the ranged grapple is the 11th level Fighter (Archer) Trick Shot ability. Would that, under the rules quoted by Bob Bob Bob, move the target to the Archer, because it doesn't say otherwise? (They even need to beat the Archer's CMD to break free)

[mplindustries]

Ellioti wrote:

under natural attacks it does say

Ranged 4 vine tendrils +10 (grab plus feed and pull)
So i was under the impression I'd get these attacks

Hmm, yeah, I actually didn't think to look at the ranged attacks. It looks like you might get them (though, as ranged attacks, they don't threaten like the quickwood's roots)--I will go into why maybe not at further down. However, if you get them, you would not get feed or pull, just grab.

Ellioti wrote:

How is that different from the Quickwood's Roots (Ex) power that mplindustries suggested?

It's weird because the roots ex ability isn't "you have roots at all," it's "you get a free bite when..."

A plant shaped quickwood would not get that ability, just 3 60' reach root attacks with the listed damage.

However, the canopy creeper's ability basically is "oh, you have these vines that aren't really part of you and they have this much ac and hp...so, It's arguable that you might not get them. It is ultimately unclear because the creature is sloppily written (ranged attacks have range, not reach, and pull is silly when grab instantly transports them adjacent to you without a special clause saying otherwise.

Ellioti wrote:

One example for the ranged grapple is the 11th level Fighter (Archer) Trick Shot ability. Would that, under the rules quoted by Bob Bob Bob, move the target to the Archer, because it doesn't say otherwise? (They even need to beat the Archer's CMD to break free)

Yes, bizarrely, by the rules, it does work that way. It shouldn't, and real GMs will make their own judgement calls, but by the books, yes, it's practically a teleport.

[James Risner]

Ellioti wrote:

When I use plant shape III (either through sorc/wiz, Wildhsape or wood oracle) to transform into a Canopy Creeper, do I get the 100ft reach vines?

How does a ranged grapple work? Can I pin? Can I grapple several enemies at a time?

on a side note, why does plant shape not give Pull and Fast Healing :(?

You get the natural weapons, but since Vine Tendrils (Ex) is an Ex that you don't get then you wouldn't get that weapon.

[Gwen Smith]

With the Fighter Archer, the origin of the grapple is the arrow, not the fighter ("A target grappled by an arrow can break free by destroying the archer's arrow...").

There's a decent precedent for how this might work in Skull and Shackles or Pirates of the Inner Sea with the grappling hook as a weapon.