Based on past threads, this question has come up several times previously, with varied answers as to if it can be done, or how it would work. Several people concluded that the Heavy crossbow could be fired by a medium creature at a -6 penalty but not reloaded ever except by a large or larger creature. Others concluded that it could be used two handed at only a -2 penalty and could be reloaded as normal. Some said that it could not be used by a medium creature at all.
Long story short, there was no verdict or consensus reached in the rules threads I could find. After searching I found a reference to a large heavy crossbow in Council of Thieves; this large heavy crossbow could be fired by medium creatures using two hands at a -2 penalty, and reloaded as a full round action. This seemed like a definite rules answer but there was a catch, in Council of Thieves, in the AP, the large heavy crossbow was mounted to the top of a carriage.
Since being mounted has no bearing on how a Large heavy crossbow is reloaded, the AP was able to confirm at least that a medium sized character can reload a Large Heavy Crossbow (and by extension a large light crossbow), the question is simplified;
Can a medium sized creature fire a large heavy crossbow, and if so, what penalties do they experience for doing so?
TL;DR, Council of Thieves AP lets medium characters fire and reload a mounted large heavy crossbow two handed with only a -2 penalty, so can a medium character carry around and use a large sized light or heavy crossbow?
Well, let's see the actual rules.
1. Consider the Medium crossbows (light and heavy use the same rule) wielded by a Medium creature.
-By default, it is a two-handed weapon.
-You can one-hand it at a penalty, but be unable to reload.
-You can dual-wield them, cumulative with the one-handing penalty. Light crossbows are treated as light weapons, while heavy are treated as one-handed.
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2. The rule for using the wrong size is as such:
-2 to hit per size difference;
-One step change in the weapon's "handedness" per size difference, in the appropriate direction;
-If the weapon ceases to be light, one-handed, or two-handed, it may not be wielded.
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3. The interaction seems to be this, for a Large crossbow wielded by a Medium creature:
-The step change would make the crossbow's normal use larger than two-handed, and so the weapon cannot be wielded. Not even by two-handing the one-handed option; the weapon is simply too large.
-The adventure has it mounted on a carriage; this makes me think of the Roman siege crossbow called the carroballista (or its Chinese equivalent.) It'd make sense to stat it as a Large heavy crossbow on a mount.
Sandslice wrote: Well, let's see the actual rules.
1. Consider the Medium crossbows (light and heavy use the same rule) wielded by a Medium creature.
-By default, it is a two-handed weapon.
-You can one-hand it at a penalty, but be unable to reload.
-You can dual-wield them, cumulative with the one-handing penalty. Light crossbows are treated as light weapons, while heavy are treated as one-handed.
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2. The rule for using the wrong size is as such:
-2 to hit per size difference;
-One step change in the weapon's "handedness" per size difference, in the appropriate direction;
-If the weapon ceases to be light, one-handed, or two-handed, it may not be wielded.
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3. The interaction seems to be this, for a Large crossbow wielded by a Medium creature:
-The step change would make the crossbow's normal use larger than two-handed, and so the weapon cannot be wielded. Not even by two-handing the one-handed option; the weapon is simply too large.
-The adventure has it mounted on a carriage; this makes me think of the Roman siege crossbow called the carroballista (or its Chinese equivalent.) It'd make sense to stat it as a Large heavy crossbow on a mount.
It is important to note that as a ranged weapon, a crossbow of any size or type never qualifies as a light weapon, one handed weapon, or two handed weapon unless it explicitly calls it out as doing so (and even then only for the purposes it expressly states such as crossbows stating how they interact with two weapon fighting), which is why this question is so hard to answer.
Yup.. that quazi state is what causes soo much issues.
Do note though.
If by some way you can wield the largetr xbow (personally I'm of the camp you can. it just adds negatives and then you can't reload by hand) you can still have spells realod it just fine. though it kills output at that point.
Zwordsman wrote: Yup.. that quazi state is what causes soo much issues.
Do note though.
If by some way you can wield the largetr xbow (personally I'm of the camp you can. it just adds negatives and then you can't reload by hand) you can still have spells realod it just fine. though it kills output at that point.
I was originally with the can't be reloaded by a medium creature group, but the large heavy crossbow in Council of thieves explicitly allowed medium creatures to reload it as a full round action (same as a normally sized heavy crossbow) so with that answered in a way that is basically official, the only question I still see is if medium creatures could fire an unmounted one, and if so, would the penalties be -2 or -6?
I figured that was because those are stationary no? The problem with reloading is that you ccan't hold the big ones still while you pull the cord or crank the level..
though I prefer that you can reload just fine. So lets go with that!
I wonder if they make large double crossbows. or if thats just a minotaur xbow
No, medium creatures can't even try to fire an unmounted Large crossbow, because it's beyond two-handed.
The Large heavy crossbow is fixed; this is the only reason why the Medium characters can use it, and the only method by which they can. By being fixed, the oversized crossbow works like a siege ballista, only smaller - and siege ballistae can be reloaded by Medium creatures, albeit slowly.
So it's messy, short answer is yes with a but, long answer is no with an ask your GM nicely.
Yes, under certain circumstances a medium creature could fire a huge heavy crossbow. It's called a ballista. Ballista wrote: A ballista is essentially a Huge heavy crossbow fixed in place. In theory you could also fire a large heavy crossbow mounted in place (as a smaller ballista). But just a ballista.
Now, as for actually wielding and using it without it being fixed in place, the number you were told is probably derived from: Heavy Crossbow wrote: However, you can shoot, but not load, a heavy crossbow with one hand at a –4 penalty on attack rolls. This means you can use it one-handed (at a -4 penalty) so if it were treated like a melee weapon you could wield a large version in two hands (with a -6 penalty). Problem is, ranged weapons don't have those rules. Also, because you would effectively always be wielding it "one-handed", you could never reload it.
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