Spirit Whisperer - possible errata?


Rules Questions


Reading the Spirit Whisperer I'm wondering if possibly there is an error in this archetype based on changes that may have happened to the Shaman class after this archetype was written up.

Specifically the Spirit Whisperer's Spirit Link ability:

Quote:
Spirit Link (Su): At 1st level, a spirit whisperer forms a mystical bond with a spirit. The spirit whisperer picks a spirit from the shaman’s list of spirits (see page 37). At 1st level, he gains a spirit ability granted by that spirit. At 8th level, he gains the greater spirit ability granted by that spirit. At 20th level, the spirit whisperer gains the manifestation ability granted by the spirit. He uses his wizard level as his shaman level for determining the effects and DCs of abilities granted by the spirit. In addition, he uses his Intelligence modifier in place of his Wisdom modifier for these abilities. He does not gain hexes, spirit magic spells, or the true spirit ability typically granted to a shaman by these spirits. This ability replaces arcane school and the bonus feat gained at 20th level.

However almost no Shaman abilities actually use the Wisdom modifier (though personally I think that this is an error and that Shaman's really should have been Wisdom based not Charisma based) almost all Spirit abilities use Charisma - so as written this is a Wizard archetype which really needs a high Charisma to actually do anything much at all from one of the core abilities it gets to replace pretty big class features (arcane school + 20th level bonus feat). In a home game I would either fix this by changing Shaman's to be Wisdom based or make the Spirit Link ability replace BOTH WIS & CHA Shaman abilities with INT.

But for say PFS play it would be helpful to know what is actually intended or if this is just a very very weak archetype as a result (or at least a very MAD archetype).


Shaman are Wisdom based. Only a select few abilities of theirs use Charisma, and unfortunately, most of them are spirit powers.

The archetype is no weaker than a Shaman, which needs mostly Wisdom with a non-dumped Charisma for some of their spirit powers. I see no reason you need to change this archetype.


Which spirit power uses Wisdom?

I looked at all of them - as far as I can tell they are all Charisma based. For numbers of uses, for DCs etc.

Why have all that language if it literally does nothing.


Remember for this archetype it doesn't matter if the rest of the Shaman class is Wisdom based. All that it cares about are the spirit abilities. I still think the Shaman class is poorly done


Personally, I think the Shaman class is awesome and one of my top 5 favorite classes. The spirit powers and a rare few hex durations are the only things that use Charisma, so, there's nothing wrong with the way the Shaman is built.

Here's the breakdown by Spirit:

Battle uses Charisma for uses per day of base, Greater, and True spirit abilities. However, it's probably the second least useful Spirit for a Wizard anyway.

Bones uses Wisdom for the DC of it's Greater ability and only uses Charisma for the uses per day of its crappy Touch of the Grave that you'll have little incentive to use.

Flame, Stone, Waves, and Wind, which all follow the same pattern, use Charisma for uses per day of their crappy touch attacks, but they use Wisdom for the DC of their Greater abilities and no stats for their True abilities.

Heavens uses Charisma only to determine uses per day for its crappy (sensing a theme here?) base spirit ability, uses no ability for its greater, and needs Wisdom for the DC of its True spirit SLAs.

Life uses Charisma for Channeling and its True Spirit ability, which is admittedly a pretty strong reason to have some Charisma, but the Greater spirit ability uses no stat (and is garbage anyway).

Lore uses Charisma for uses per day of its basic ability (which is awful because it's a standard action), and then no stat for the other abilities.

Mammoth weirdly uses Charisma for the DC of is basic ability and its uses per day, which is a shame, because it's pretty good, but well, not for a Wizard, so that's not too big a deal. The other two powers use no stat, but, yeah, everything but the pet is crappy for a Wizard anyway.

Nature uses Charisma for uses per day for its junky basic ability, then no stat for anything else.

So, no, I don't think the archetype needs a change, I don't think the Shaman is poorly done, and I don't think you especially need Charisma unless you want a lousy-for-a-wizard Spirit or the Life Spirit, which, well, that's the price you pay, just like the Cleric.

Switching the Wisdom for Intelligence does help a few spirits, but, remember, they're not necessarily done printing spirits, so, the clause is there for the future, too, when more spirits might use Wisdom for more things.


This is getting slightly off topic but I guess I don't see why a class that is a hybrid of a CHA based caster (Oracle) and an INT based caster (Witch) was decided to be a WIS based caster but one that uses CHA for key things like the number of uses of 1st level abilities.

It is also Hexes. Most of the Shaman's hexes (not associated with spirits) use Wisdom if they use a stat for anything. While many (but not all) of the hexes from spirits that use a stat for number of uses, durations etc use Chrisma.

It just seems like they should have been consistent instead of some abilities using Wis and others (of the same type - ie hexes) using CHA.


Rycaut wrote:

This is getting slightly off topic but I guess I don't see why a class that is a hybrid of a CHA based caster (Oracle) and an INT based caster (Witch) was decided to be a WIS based caster but one that uses CHA for key things like the number of uses of 1st level abilities.

It is also Hexes. Most of the Shaman's hexes (not associated with spirits) use Wisdom if they use a stat for anything. While many (but not all) of the hexes from spirits that use a stat for number of uses, durations etc use Chrisma.

It just seems like they should have been consistent instead of some abilities using Wis and others (of the same type - ie hexes) using CHA.

I think they went with Wisdom because all of the other non-spontaneous divine casters use Wisdom for casting spells. In that sense it is consistent.

Spirit Whisperers are fun. It's nice that they can get Improve Familiar even though Shaman's can't.

And for a Spirit Whisperer, I love the Air Barrier Hex from the Wind Spirit. It is effectively mage armor that can be broken up into 1 hour increments, scales to +12, and eventually grants a miss chance for ranged attacks (including rays)! It is much more valuable to a Wizard than it is to a Shaman. The whole suite of Wind Spirit abilities is great for a Sylph Spirit Whisperer.


It does say that you use your intelligence modifier in place of your wisdom modifier for (THESE abilities)

I read that as abilities grants you use the intelligence modifier
Is that wrong?

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