So, with all this talk about demons and the abyss, my brain switched on its creative juices (slow work day) and I spent practically my whole lunch hour creating a new character: the Warlock.
My idea is that the Warlock has command over life forces, using his health to increase his power, and drawing health back from defeated enemies. Almost in an anti-divine kind of way (and modelled after a similar warlock-type character in another game.) Obviously still a work in progress, but I thought I'd post it here in case anyone had some feedback or other interesting ideas to add to roles. Could be interesting to play with in the new WotR adventure path, though of course we have yet to see what new features are arriving.
Warlock
Skills
Strength: d4 []+1
Dexterity: d6 []+1 []+2
Constitution: d8 []+1 []+2
- Fortitude: Con +1
Intelligence: d6 []+1 []+2
Wisdom: d8 []+1 []+2 []+3 []+4
- Survival: Wis +1
Charisma: d10 []+1 []+2 []+3 []+4
- Arcane: Cha +3
Powers
• Hand Size: 5 []6
• Proficiencies: [] Light Armor
• You may discard any number of cards from your deck to add 1 ([] 2) for each card to your check.
• When you defeat a monster you may recharge a random card from your discard pile.
• [] Instead of your first exploration on a turn, you may bury an ally to recharge 1d4+1 cards from your discard pile.
Favored Card Type: Spell
Weapon: -
Spell: 4 []5 []6 []7
Armor: 2 []3
Item: 3 []4 []5
Ally: 4 []5 []6
Blessing: 2 []3 []4
Role card
Demon’s Bane (geared towards destruction, more "evil")
• Hand Size: 5 []6 []7 []8
• Proficiencies: [] Light Armor
• You may discard any number of cards from your deck to add 1 ([] 2) for each card to your check.
• When you defeat a monster you may recharge a random card from your discard pile.
• [] Instead of your first exploration on a turn, you may bury an ally to recharge 1d4+1 cards from your discard pile.
• [] You automatically succeed at your check to recharge a spell that was played during an encounter with a bane with the Demon or Devil trait.
• [] If you fail your check to defeat a bane with the Demon or Devil trait, you may discard a card to reroll one die; you must take the second result.
• [] When you defeat a non-villain monster with the Demon or Devil trait and would banish it, you may add it to your hand. You may banish a monster from your hand to add 1d6 to a combat check at your location.
• [] If the number of cards in your deck is less than your hand size, you may discard a card to add 1 die to any combat check.
• [] You may evade your encounter with a card with the Corrupted trait.
Role card
Soul Siphon (geared towards healing and helping others in combat, slightly less "evil")
• Hand Size: 5 []6 []7
• Proficiencies: [] Light Armor
• You may discard any number of cards from your deck to add 1 ([] 2) for each card to your check.
• When you defeat a monster you may recharge a random card from your discard pile ([] or another character at your location may recharge a random card from her discard pile.)
• [] Instead of your first exploration on a turn, you may bury an ally to recharge 1d4+1 cards from your discard pile ([] or to allow another character at your location to recharge 1d4+1 cards from her discard pile.)
• [] On your turn, you may discard an ally to search the discard pile of another character at your location for an ally and recharge it.
• [] (Something about the Corrupted trait?)
• [] You gain the skill Divine: Wisdom +2.
Off the cuff: I'd only have one of your roles deal with Corrupted cards; the design guidance seems to be one role can be more specific to the current Adventure Path, while the other is more generic. Demon's Bane is your Demon one, so maybe soul siphon can be more generic.
Also, perhaps you instead gain the skill Divine: Charisma +1; most casters in the RPG only have one casting stat. But that's entirely up to what flavor you want your character to have.
Your skills look fine to me. That's a good start.
I think I wouldn't make it a power feat to have Light Armor Proficiency, since you do start with 2 Armors and a reasonably high Fortitude. Having to put a Power Feat in there seems unnecessary to me. Maybe add the option to Recharge cards for a bonus.. Although that might become to powerful. Displaying is also option and then change his power basically to that off "Shield of Gorum - Oloch" for yourself. (If you know which power I mean.)
If you are keen on Light Armor to be unable at start, maybe down his Armor and up his Spells? Seems like a Demon Slaying Caster would like some burst with that, he also feels more like a Sorcerer than a Wizard skillwise, but Card and Power wise he feels more like a Wizard. Take a look at the Class Decks and decide which one you want him to be?
(Meaning: He works on Charisma and has low spells -> Sorcerer. His powers don't allow him to cast without spells and give him stability in fights -> Wizard).
The power feats are off. Demon's Bane has 11, Soul Siphon has 10. What is noticeable too is his sheer amount of NEW powers he gets. Most characters have a line of 6 powers, some 7. Demon's Bane has 9!! Maybe give him less powers and make them up gradable instead.
I agree with FW Bard that giving him Divine is a bit redundant, and also thematically weird, since he is kind of evil.
For now, the two also don't seem balanced, since right now I would always go for Demon's Bane, but that's probably because the other is not finished yet.
I do like the basic idea of the Warlock and he gives a very WoW-like feeling (Instead of the DnD one in the Advanced Guide Book).
Excellent, thanks so much, and all good points.
FWB: I didn't realise the design was like that, but it makes sense of course. I will think how to make the Soul Siphon more accessible in general. Also point taken about the one casting stat. Another thing I didn't realise but makes complete sense.
Donny: Correct, the inspiration was indeed WoW :) I modeled part of his stats off of Darago, who is similar thematically, and he starts with two armors and NO proficiency. I will probably take your advice though and down the armor and up the spells. At the moment I want him to be a mix between Wizard and Sorcerer ... at the moment leaning more Wizard, although I think it would be wrong to have his Arcane in Int (a friend I showed this to suggested even an atypical stat like Arcane: Constitution?)
The role card powers are not done, and I am still working with those. I will clean up the Demon's Bane ones. You're right about the Divine, and I think I will have more of a play with this once WotR comes out and I can see how the Corrupted trait works.
Thanks to both of you for the advice!
Tweaked it a bit. Here is version 2.0
Skills and base powers as above (except for hand size - I feel he should go along with most casters and start with a hand size of 6). Cards and Roles are as follows:
Favored Card Type: Spell
Weapon: -
Spell: 5 []6 []7 []8
Armor: 1 []2
Item: 3 []4 []5
Ally: 4 []5 []6
Blessing: 2 []3 []4
Role card
Demon’s Bane (geared towards destruction)
• Hand Size: 6 []7 []8 []9
• Proficiencies: [] Light Armor
• You may discard any number of cards from your deck to add 1 ([] 2) for each card to your check.
• When you succeed at your check to defeat a monster you may recharge a random card from your discard pile.
• [] Instead of your first exploration on a turn, you may bury an ally to recharge 1d4+1 cards from your discard pile.
• [] Add 1d4 ([] 2d4) to your check to defeat a monster with the Demon or Devil trait.
• [] When you defeat a non-villain monster with the Demon or Devil trait and would banish it, you may add it to your hand. You may banish a monster from your hand to add 1d6 ([]+1) to a combat check at your location.
• [] If the number of cards in your deck is less than your hand size, you may discard a card to add 1 die to any combat check.
• [] (Something about Corrupted trait)
Role card
Soul Siphon (geared towards healing and support)
• Hand Size: 6 []7 []8
• Proficiencies: [] Light Armor
• You may discard any number of cards from your deck to add 1 ([] 2) for each card to your check.
• When you succeed at your check to defeat a monster you may recharge a random card from your discard pile ([] or another character at your location may recharge a random card from her discard pile.)
• [] Instead of your first exploration on a turn, you may bury an ally to recharge 1d4+1 ([]+2) cards from your discard pile ([] or to allow another character at your location to recharge those cards from her discard pile).
• [] When you would recharge an ally for its power, you may shuffle it into your deck instead.
• [] When you ([] or another character at your location) would fail a combat check by 1 ([] or 2), you may recharge your entire hand (which must contain at least one card) to succeed. If you do this, each character at your location is dealt 1 Fire damage.
Someone tell me that last one is ridiculous.
Looking it over, I should also clarify that the base Power:
• You may discard any number of cards from your deck to add 1 ([] 2) for each card to your check.
applies to before you roll, not after. Does that need clarifying, do you think?
Looking it over, I should also clarify that the base Power:
• You may discard any number of cards from your deck to add 1 ([] 2) for each card to your check.
applies to before you roll, not after. Does that need clarifying, do you think?
Probably not because the few things that add to a roll afterwards, like the Luckstone, are worded carefully to make that explicit.
Okay good, thanks. I guess it's a weird question to ask, considering I made the character, and I know what I mean ...
Okay, this looks exciting. I'm going to issue my standard disclaimer and get right into it.
Disclaimer: I am not a designer, I just spend a lot of time on these boards. Any recommendations I make should be taken with a grain of salt, and should be used to enhance your vision, not replace it. And I can only guess how good something is until it is playtested. Make sure you playtest yourself, as my guesses will often be wrong.
Skills
Strength: d4 []+1
Dexterity: d6 []+1 []+2
Constitution: d8 []+1 []+2
- Fortitude: Con +1
Intelligence: d6 []+1 []+2
Wisdom: d8 []+1 []+2 []+3 []+4
- Survival: Wis +1
Charisma: d10 []+1 []+2 []+3 []+4
- Arcane: Cha +3
I see no issues with your skills. The numbers and scale look about right. I'm not sure where Survival comes from, but it doesn't stick out either.
Powers
• Hand Size: 6 []7
• Proficiencies: [] Light Armor
• You may discard any number of cards from your deck to add 1 ([] 2) for each card to your check.
• When you defeat a monster you may recharge a random card from your discard pile.
• [] Instead of your first exploration on a turn, you may bury an ally to recharge 1d4+1 cards from your discard pile.
I'm just going to say it. I think your first power is bad. I think it's a great concept, but as it is right now, it's a trap that will do more to kill newbies than to enhance play. Adding 1 to a check is just not worth discarding a card (also, I am assuming it is from the top of the deck, but that should be specified), and even after the power feat, a less experienced or math-inclined player is liable to get themselves in trouble, especially now that you have a hand size of 6. I think I'd improve throughput while decreasing spike damage here. Something like the below (which may still be too newbie-killing, but at least leaves some guard rails):
You may discard up to 2 ([]3) cards from the top of your deck. For each card discarded, add 2 to your check.Your second power I think is great. No complaints. I have tested a similar ability on one of my homebrew characters, and I give it a thumbs-up.
I'm torn on your third power. The power level seems right, since you're a non-healing class, but with strong self-healing skills. What I can't decide is if this should require a power feat to access. It might be better to try having it available baseline, but require a power-feat for the +1 (baseline just d4).
Favored Card Type: Spell
Weapon: -
Spell: 5 []6 []7 []8
Armor: 1 []2
Item: 3 []4 []5
Ally: 4 []5 []6
Blessing: 2 []3 []4
Off-hand, your cards look about right to me. I might consider going even heavier into spells, since their your only reliable combat method, but I don't think it'd be wrong to go with it as is.
Role card
Demon’s Bane (geared towards destruction)
• Hand Size: 6 []7 []8 []9
• Proficiencies: [] Light Armor
• You may discard any number of cards from your deck to add 1 ([] 2) for each card to your check.
• When you succeed at your check to defeat a monster you may recharge a random card from your discard pile.
• [] Instead of your first exploration on a turn, you may bury an ally to recharge 1d4+1 cards from your discard pile.
• [] Add 1d4 ([] 2d4) to your check to defeat a monster with the Demon or Devil trait.
• [] When you defeat a non-villain monster with the Demon or Devil trait and would banish it, you may add it to your hand. You may banish a monster from your hand to add 1d6 ([]+1) to a combat check at your location.
• [] If the number of cards in your deck is less than your hand size, you may discard a card to add 1 die to any combat check.
• [] (Something about Corrupted trait)
I have to admit, I'm not getting destruction from this, I'm getting demonology. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I don't see fire and brimstone as much as specialization in planar knowledge.
I think your first power, to get better at defeating demons and devils, is a bit weak, since comparable powers, such as Harsk in RotR, give a d8 ([]+1). I'd consider going for that instead.The power to take control of defeated demons is solid, and the execution looks fine. I wouldn't make any changes at this time.
The ability to turn all your cards into (effectively) blessings at low health I am a bit concerned about. It feels like you're asking to get bad luck and die, which is really bad in PACG with base rules. Also, having to count your deck several times over the course of the game could slow things down, which isn't ideal. I think this power is actually really cool, but I'd strongly consider scrapping it, since there's just too many downsides, and death is so un-fun in PACG.
(Comment about power affecting the corrupted trait). (Perhaps you could have a power to recharge a card to treat a card with the corrupted trait as if it didn't have that trait? Not sure if that would work, but first thing that comes to mind)
Role card
Soul Siphon (geared towards healing and support)
• Hand Size: 6 []7 []8
• Proficiencies: [] Light Armor
• You may discard any number of cards from your deck to add 1 ([] 2) for each card to your check.
• When you succeed at your check to defeat a monster you may recharge a random card from your discard pile ([] or another character at your location may recharge a random card from her discard pile.)
• [] Instead of your first exploration on a turn, you may bury an ally to recharge 1d4+1 ([]+2) cards from your discard pile ([] or to allow another character at your location to recharge those cards from her discard pile).
• [] When you would recharge an ally for its power, you may shuffle it into your deck instead.
• [] When you ([] or another character at your location) would fail a combat check by 1 ([] or 2), you may recharge your entire hand (which must contain at least one card) to succeed. If you do this, each character at your location is dealt 1 Fire damage.
I feel like there's an easier way to write the power feat you have for both your heal abilities, but I can't come up with it. Otherwise, looks good.
The shuffle instead of recharge ability feels really weak to me. I'm not sure when I'd ever want to spend a power feat on that. I feel like it needs a bit more spice to it, maybe add another power feat to shuffle instead of discard, too?I'm having a hard time judging your last power. I feel it's a bit weak, but I also may be underestimating a success on a close check power. I think I might make the ability to affect anyone at your location a baseline part of the power, and test it at that level. It's a cool ability, and I like the cost, which I've never seen before, but the effect just doesn't seem to match the price.
Overall, this is a really unique character. I think they need a good bit of playtesting, since so many abilities are really unique and out there. However, once they're ready to go, it will be a great design.
Edit: Also, I wanted to respond to the Armor proficiency discussion, since I waited to read the comments until after my post. I think it's worth considering if you want proficiency at all. Taking Darago, whom you sited, one major reason not to give him proficiency is it opens up a significant amount of text-space on the card, which can be used for his fairly long power descriptions. You have 3 powers, with none of them being terribly long, but each of them potentially going onto a second line. This means that you may run into card-space issues. In a situation like this, I'd consider either dropping Light Armor completely, like Darago, or just give it to him. Which one you go with may come down to how the card looks in the end.
Excellent, thanks so much. Great feedback. I would like to reply to a few of your points, but in general, I will take all of your points on board and I agree that this character needs some playtesting. To me, the warlock (and I don’t know about you, but I have zero experience with RPGs) represents one who can manipulate life forces to his will, and also plays with “dark magic”, for lack of a better term. As such, yes, he will often be playing close to death, but I don’t think he is the first character to do so. (My first death was due to an unfortunate turn of events with Wu Shen.) I want him to be dynamic and powerful in the capable hands of an experienced player, but not too reckless for newbies – though they should approach with caution anyway.
I'm just going to say it. I think your first power is bad. I think it's a great concept, but as it is right now, it's a trap that will do more to kill newbies than to enhance play.
Point taken. I will probably increase the power as you suggest but I want to see how this works in actual game play. I don’t think there’s a need for guard rails, as even inexperienced players should always be aware of their health. And at the same time, if players want to take that risk, why stop them? Discarding 5 cards for potentially +10 on your roll would be awesome, but also very silly. Also the fact that he can do that for any check is quite powerful IMO. I want to go with something that balances his healing abilities, and I don’t foresee smart players over-using this power, but again this will become evident in playtesting.
I have to admit, I'm not getting destruction from this, I'm getting demonology. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I don't see fire and brimstone as much as specialization in planar knowledge.
You’re absolutely right. The destruction bit was only there as a note to myself, back when I started considering how the two roles would be distinct, and I meant to remove it before posting. But he has definitely gone more demonologist since then.
I think your first power, to get better at defeating demons and devils, is a bit weak, since comparable powers, such as Harsk in RotR, give a d8 ([]+1). I'd consider going for that instead.
To be honest, this idea came directly from Darago, but seeing how this is a role card feat, and his was a baseline power, I think I will take your advice and change it to 1d8 ([]+1). (I have a tendency to be wary not to make my homebrew characters too powerful, lately I’ve been finding some of them are just not powerful enough.)
The ability to turn all your cards into (effectively) blessings at low health I am a bit concerned about.
I’m not sure about this one either. In testing, I may change it to recharge and see if that works. If it still doesn’t work, I’m not against scrapping it altogether.
Perhaps you could have a power to recharge a card to treat a card with the corrupted trait as if it didn't have that trait?
This is an excellent idea and I am stealing it tyvm. Thematically I wonder if he would need to recharge at all, seeing as how this role is steeped in evil energy already?
I feel like there's an easier way to write the power feat you have for both your heal abilities, but I can't come up with it. Otherwise, looks good.
I’m really struggling with the wording on this one too. What I want is for one power feat to increase it to +2 and another to allow the healing to go to others at the location. If you can think of a better way to word it, let me know!
The shuffle instead of recharge ability feels really weak to me. I'm not sure when I'd ever want to spend a power feat on that. I feel like it needs a bit more spice to it, maybe add another power feat to shuffle instead of discard, too?
The reason I’m avoiding “recharge instead of discard” is because of the many allies with whom you can explore by discarding. If you’re exploring without real detriment, I feel this would be too powerful. (S&S Lini can do this, but only with animals.) The idea is that there are a few that you can recharge for their power, and if you play it right, you can shuffle instead and get those same allies closer to the top of your deck. I want this role to have some way of boosting the use of allies because he doesn’t get demon helpers. Maybe there’s not an easy way to do this. If that one isn’t alluring enough, does “When you would banish an ally for its power, bury it instead.” tickle your fancy? How about “You may discard an ally to search the discard pile of another person at your location and recharge it.”? Or even “You may banish an ally to draw a random ally from the same adventure deck from the box.”? I want to find one that works thematically.
I'm having a hard time judging your last power. I feel it's a bit weak, but I also may be underestimating a success on a close check power.
This one definitely needs playtesting – I agree that it may sound weak, but I find it very frustrating when you fail by a small amount, and the damage isn’t even the worst part, but the ramifications of failing. A lot of S&S monsters have harsh punishment for not defeating monsters. I might extend this to any check, but we’ll see how that goes in practice.
Still thinking about Light Armor but leaning towards just giving it to him. If he’s going to be playing closely with death, it might be nice to have some safeguards ;-)