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1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Ok so... running wrath of the righteous and ran across this little oddity
in book one, they run into an evil outsider bane long sword
in book two they run into a demon bane great axe (optional weapon fiendsplitter found by fighting a vrock)
the rules for bane..are a bit confusing, and one of the two should not be doable.
So when the say pick a subtype of outsider for bane, do we use the outsider subtypes in the monster manuals
or... do we pick a sub type like we would for a ranger
or is it either.. in which case why would you ever build something that is only demon bane.
looking forward to the answer on this one. maybe one is a misprint/ error.

Kudaku |

They... Both seem valid actually. Bane says you need to pick an subtype if your target is an outsider. Both Evil Outsider and Demon are subtypes.
Generally speaking Evil (Outsider) is more popular since it encompasses both Demons, Daemons and Devils, but I believe Demon is still a legal option.
Bane (Demon) is a good choice if you're also an evil outsider such as a devil and you're paranoid about wielding a weapon that could be turned against you.

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Bane (Demon) is a good choice if you're also an evil outsider such as a devil and you're paranoid about wielding a weapon that could be turned against you.
I'd think it'd be this.
Wouldn't be popular for a Hellknight to carry around something that Infernal allies would have to fear just as much.

wraithstrike |

Outsiders (pick one subtype)
Demon Subtype: Demons are chaotic evil outsiders that call the Abyss their home. Demons possess a particular suite of traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry) as summarized here.
That is the rule saying that demons are a subtype. Unless someone can find a ruling saying that does not count then it works by the rules. You can't really get more official than the book, unless the book is countered by FAQ or errata.

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Kudaku wrote:Bane (Demon) is a good choice if you're also an evil outsider such as a devil and you're paranoid about wielding a weapon that could be turned against you.I'd think it'd be this.
Wouldn't be popular for a Hellknight to carry around something that Infernal allies would have to fear just as much.
A chaotic outsider bane weapon would be more useful, seeing as they could use it to fight proteans or azata.
But demonbane weapons are not only legal but traditional.

UnArcaneElection |

Kudaku wrote:Bane (Demon) is a good choice if you're also an evil outsider such as a devil and you're paranoid about wielding a weapon that could be turned against you.I'd think it'd be this.
Wouldn't be popular for a Hellknight to carry around something that Infernal allies would have to fear just as much.
Actually, it should be very popular to the extent that it is obtainable, since the Hellknight initiation rites start with slaying a Devil of greater hit dice than your own. Hellknights seek to emulate Hell's organization, and are often Lawful Evil, but they don't necessarily get along with Devils. For that matter, Infernal commander Devils probably wouldn't mind having a weapon that works against those they have to keep in line, as well as against potential rivals. On the other hand, such commander Devils probably wouldn't want their subordinates to have such a weapon -- that's what the Demon-bane weapons would be for.

Lifat |
Others have pointed out that both "demon" and "evil" count as subtypes for outsiders and both can be chosen for your favored enemy as a ranger and both can be selected for bane weapon.
Not sure what ruling there is on stacking the abilities, but I could already see shenanigans happening with a "Demon-Outsider" bane, "Evil-Outsider" bane weapon...
If the stacking I suggested isn't possible by the rules (and I honestly have no idea if it would be legal) then you still have in game reasons for choosing the more narrow option even though it seems silly from a player perspective.

wraithstrike |

Others have pointed out that both "demon" and "evil" count as subtypes for outsiders and both can be chosen for your favored enemy as a ranger and both can be selected for bane weapon.
Not sure what ruling there is on stacking the abilities, but I could already see shenanigans happening with a "Demon-Outsider" bane, "Evil-Outsider" bane weapon...
If the stacking I suggested isn't possible by the rules (and I honestly have no idea if it would be legal) then you still have in game reasons for choosing the more narrow option even though it seems silly from a player perspective.
It doesn't stack. Here is the FAQ.

wraithstrike |

Alrighty. Wraithstrike clearly showed that my shenanigans couldn't be done within the rules. I am very happy with that. Doesn't remove the potential in game reasons to make a more narrow option bane weapon, which is what we are left with.
What do you mean by more narrow option? Do you mean something like Bane <evil outsiders> which would allow you to cover more creatures in most games?

Ashram |

Lifat wrote:Alrighty. Wraithstrike clearly showed that my shenanigans couldn't be done within the rules. I am very happy with that. Doesn't remove the potential in game reasons to make a more narrow option bane weapon, which is what we are left with.What do you mean by more narrow option? Do you mean something like Bane <evil outsiders> which would allow you to cover more creatures in most games?
More narrow would be, say, demon-bane, or daemon-bane, as opposed to evil outsider-bane.

wraithstrike |

wraithstrike wrote:More narrow would be, say, demon-bane, or daemon-bane, as opposed to evil outsider-bane.Lifat wrote:Alrighty. Wraithstrike clearly showed that my shenanigans couldn't be done within the rules. I am very happy with that. Doesn't remove the potential in game reasons to make a more narrow option bane weapon, which is what we are left with.What do you mean by more narrow option? Do you mean something like Bane <evil outsiders> which would allow you to cover more creatures in most games?
I completely misread what you were trying to say. I agree that there would be potential in-game reasons to go after demons instead of chaotic outsiders as an example, with regard to bane.

Lifat |
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Ashram wrote:I completely misread what you were trying to say. I agree that there would be potential in-game reasons to go after demons instead of chaotic outsiders as an example, with regard to bane.wraithstrike wrote:More narrow would be, say, demon-bane, or daemon-bane, as opposed to evil outsider-bane.Lifat wrote:Alrighty. Wraithstrike clearly showed that my shenanigans couldn't be done within the rules. I am very happy with that. Doesn't remove the potential in game reasons to make a more narrow option bane weapon, which is what we are left with.What do you mean by more narrow option? Do you mean something like Bane <evil outsiders> which would allow you to cover more creatures in most games?
I actually don't think you misread it. My post was in 2 section. One of them was indeed about stacking by having a weapon that was bane both against demon and evil outsiders... I also wrote that I wasn't sure if there was a ruling against it. You showed there was a ruling against it. But the second section of my post was about in-game reasons for having a demon bane weapon (narrow option) versus a evil outsider bane (broad option).