| Flame Effigy |
I've looked up threads talking about this, but the more I read the more confused I get, especially when it gets to higher levels.
So, let's assume I'm playing a Level 20 Maneuver Master Monk so it'll be easier to clarify for me and it'll be easier for me to do the math.
At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action. The maneuver master uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus to determine his CMB for the bonus maneuvers, though all combat maneuver checks suffer a –2 penalty when using a flurry.
At 8th level, a maneuver master may attempt a second additional combat maneuver, with an additional –3 penalty on combat maneuver checks.
At 15th level, a maneuver master may attempt a third additional combat maneuver, with an additional –7 penalty on combat maneuver checks.
1.) What would my flurry look like if I use all my additional combat maneuvers granted to me as part of my full-round attack? Assume I'm not replacing my normal attacks with combat maneuvers.
Ignoring modifiers, would it be:
+15/+10/+5/[+8]/[+8]/[+8]
With the combat maneuvers in brackets? -12 for each combat maneuver due to -2, -3, and -7, then +20 from Monk Level
2.) What would my flurry look like if I use all my additional combat maneuvers granted to me as part of my full-round attack, AND I replace my normal attacks with combat maneuvers
[+8]/[+8]/[+8]/[+8]/[+8]/[+8] ?
| Kazaan |
There has been a lot of discussion and debate on this topic. The pertinent lines say that you get a default -2 across the board (to maneuvers only). This applies whether or not you make that first additional maneuver. But I take the line "At 8th level, a maneuver master may attempt a second additional combat maneuver, with an additional –3 penalty on combat maneuver checks," to mean that the -3 additional penalty doesn't apply until you actually take that second combat maneuver. Same goes for the third. So, by my reckoning, your penalties would depend on where in your routine you took your additional maneuvers. To illustrate:
Additional maneuvers in blue, maneuvers in general in [brackets]:
No iteratives replaced with maneuvers, bonus maneuvers at end:
+13/+8/+3/[+18]/[+15]/[+8]
Iteratives replaced with maneuvers, bonus maneuvers at end:
[+18]/[+13]/[+8]/[+18]/[+15]/[+8]
Bonus maneuvers in middle:
[+18]/[+13]/[+18]/[+15]/[+8]/[-2]
The first two melee maneuvers are done as normal, but the last one drops from +8 to -2 beacuse it's taking an additional -10 penalty (-3 and -7).
Bonus maneuvers shuffled:
[+18]/[+18]/[+15]/[+10]/[+8]/[-2]
The second iterative gets only the -3 penalty because it happens after the second bonus, but before the third.