[Kobold Press] New Paths Compendium Theurge Question

[DM_Kumo Gekkou]

So I have a question on the Theurge.

When I get the 3rd level, how do my bonus spells work. Say I get a bonus 2nd level spell of both types, what can I prepare?

Do I get 2 of whichever type I choose, or am i treated as though it were 1+0?

[Joynt Jezebel]

The way I read the rules is when you are level 3 you can prepare a 2nd level divine spell or a second level arcane spell.

If you choose arcane and your int is high enough you will get 2 arcane spells. You can't cast a 2nd level divine spell that day, so don't get a bonus spell.

At level 4 you have a divine and an arcane second level spell. You will get a bonus spell in each if your int and wis are good enough.

The theurge looks interesting, how do you find the class?

[DM_Kumo Gekkou]

I purchased New Paths Compendium on a friends recommendation.

[Joynt Jezebel]

Sorry, my question was ambiguous. I meant how is the Theurge to play, and does it seem balanced.

[DM_Kumo Gekkou]

To be honest I don't know yet. A player in my group asked this because we're wrapping up our current campaign thus he is starting to look at playing this next.

Looking at it from a pure math standpoint, I believe it is balanced.

[Joynt Jezebel]

It did not seem to be out of balance to me when I looked at it.

It also struck me as a neater way to do the character who can cast divine and arcane spells than the traditional mystic theurge. The mystic theurge is really weak unless you are using the old FAQ that allows early entry. Then it becomes controversial and its power level compared to other classes varies a lot with level.

[carpe jugulum]

If you have players who played 3.5 D&D, sometimes it would specifically say you have 0 spells of a level, which allowed you to apply your bonus spells for having a high stat. I haven't seen that in Paizo, however that is effectively what is happening with the level 3 Theurge. From your name, I'm guessing you are the DM, so you could go either way with it.

As far as the power level goes, the Theurge is very high. like any wizard they are fragile at low levels, but if the party spends some money on spells they can get an incredibly powerful caster. Theurges pull spells of the Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Ranger, Summoner and Wizard spell lists. This lets them get spells earlier than normal and be incredibly versatile.

[Marc Radle]

Hey there!

I answered this in the main New Paths Compendium product thread but figured I'd do the same here as well ...

The theurge receives bonus arcane spells for a high Intelligence score and bonus divine spells for a high Wisdom score. The bonus spells for high casting stat can't be swapped back and forth.

So, a 3rd-level theurge with a 12 Intelligence and a 12 Wisdom can prepare:
0-Level Spells: 2+2 (2 arcane and 2 divine)
1st-Level Spells:1+1 (1 arcane and 1 divine)
2nd-Level Spells:1 (1 arcane OR 1 divine)
Because he does not get any bonus spells for a high INT or WIS, the above is all he can prepare per day

If that same 3rd-level theurge had an 18 Intelligence and an 18 Wisdom, he could prepare:
0-Level Spells: 2+2 (2 arcane and 2 divine)
1st-Level Spells:1+1 (1 arcane and 1 divine) plus 1 bonus arcane spell and 1 bonus divine spell due to his high stats
2nd-Level Spells:1 (1 arcane OR 1 divine) plus 1 bonus arcane spell OR 1 bonus divine spell (depending on what type of spell he chose to prepare

If the 3rd-level theurge had an 18 Intelligence but only a 12 Wisdom, he could prepare:
0-Level Spells: 2+2 (2 arcane and 2 divine)
1st-Level Spells:1+1 (1 arcane and 1 divine) plus 1 bonus arcane spell and 0 bonus divine spells
2nd-Level Spells:1 (1 arcane OR 1 divine) If he prepared an arcane spell, he would also get 1 bonus arcane spell. If he prepared a divine spell, he would not get a bonus spell

Does that help?

[DM_Kumo Gekkou]

Yes, very much so.

[Marc Radle]

Excellent!