Martial Versatility and Swashbucklers....

[Rycaut]

So in Undead Slayers Handbook there is a feat:

Quote:

Weapon Versatility (Combat)

Source Undead Slayer's Handbook pg. 25
You can use your favored weapons in unconventional ways.

Prerequisites: Weapon Focus, base attack bonus +1.

Benefit: When wielding a weapon with which you have Weapon Focus, you can shift your grip as a swift action so that your weapon deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage instead of the damage type normally dealt by that weapon. You may switch back to the weapon’s normal damage type or another damage type as a swift action. If your base attack bonus is +5 or higher, using this feat is a free action instead.

If a swashbuckler gets this fear can he still finesse a weapon he uses the weapon versatility feat on? Or does he lose dex to hit if he shifts his grip? (And likely is this is the case he would lose Fencing Grace or Slashing Grace as well?) What if he is an inspired swashbuckler and his abilities only require a rapier?

[Diminuendo]

Some people say yes, some no, it's a GM discresion thing

[Rycaut]

Ugh. So table variation in PFS. I'm actually of both minds myself. I can see the argument that the abilities don't function (if you consider this feat as actually changing the weapon type) but whether that is RAI I don't know.

Personally I think it wouldn't be too overpowered for a swashbuckler to be able to deal other types of damage at the cost of a feat so would allow it in my home games (especially if it was leading towards taking other feats to do things like focus on non-lethal damage etc)

[Byakko]

If you shift your grip on a weapon so that it deals, say, bludgeoning damage, it is for all intents and purposes a weapon that deals that type of damage.

Thus, you would lose the benefits of feats and abilities which require piercing damage if your grip has changed your weapon's type of damage to something different.

[Deighton Thrane]

I would say you still gain your bonus to attack and damage. Nothing in either of the feats or the ability says you have to be doing piercing/slashing damage for them to apply. Simply that you must be using a slashing/piercing weapon to use them. There are many type or weapon that can do either of 2 damage types, or sometimes 2 at once. Just because you happen to slash something, does not mean that your weapon isn't a piercing weapon, or that it stops being one. So if you shift your grip to do bludgeoning, it's still a slashing/piercing weapon, and the feats still work.

That's how I'd rule it. Expect table variation.

[Rycaut]

Exactly.

Does changing the grip just change the damage being dealt with this attack. Or does it also change the weapon type for other feats and class abilities that care?

I would rule similarly to Deighton but unsure how it would be ruled in PFS.

[Game Master]

It would be ruled differently in each game in PFS. The ability is poorly defined so GMs will have to step in to adjudicate - and sadly, they're human so they're not all gonna have the same interpretation.

[graystone]

Game Master wrote:

It would be ruled differently in each game in PFS. The ability is poorly defined so GMs will have to step in to adjudicate - and sadly, they're human so they're not all gonna have the same interpretation.

This. Until we get a FAQ on this, you should expect extreme table variances if you don't have the same Dm all the time. Both sides have their pro's and con's and neither stands out as being 'more' right, so it's really a toss up.

[Game Master]

Sidenote: If he's an Inspired Blade, and can do it all with a rapier, obviously he's fine. The feat doesn't change whether it's a rapier or not.

[graystone]

Game Master wrote:

Sidenote: If he's an Inspired Blade, and can do it all with a rapier, obviously he's fine. The feat doesn't change whether it's a rapier or not.

Ah, good point. That's a nice way to sidestep the issue altogether. ;)

[Rycaut]

update - I got the subject wrong - I was talking about the feat Weapon Versatility not the human only feat Martial Versatility (and really Pathfinder has to get better about differentiating feats...)