[Everyman Gaming] Swashbuckler Archetypes

[Aincrad Survivor]

Now I am not sure how one does this so please forgive any mistakes.

I wanted to talk about the Everyman Archetypes: Swashbuckler product.
But more specifically the Two-Weapon Duelist Archetype and the feats Two-Weapon Panache and Improved Two-Weapon Panache.

The archetype changes Swashbuckler Finesse in such a way as to grant you a free Two-Weapon Fighting bonus feat.

It then alters Precise Strike, making it possible to fight and attack with both weapons, but you must hit with both weapon to apply the Precise Strike's normal damage of level to damage and this can only be done once per round.

The next change is to menacing swordplay at level 3 which it replaces. If a Swashbuckler with this archetype makes an attack, it can by spending one panache point make an attack of opportunity with its off-hand as if using Two-Weapon fighting, it can do this once per round. (Basically if you are forced to move to attack the foe, you can use this deed to deliver an attack by both weapons by spending a panache point and using up you AoO for that round.)

The Next one replaces bleeding wound at level 11, and this either allows you to reduce the penalty of two-weapon fighting by 1 when fighting with a light off hand, or treat a one-handed piercing weapon as light for the purpose of two-weapon fighting.

The last replaces Perfect Thrust at level 15, and allows you to spend a panache point to attack with both your primary and off hand attacks during any AoO, but does not stack with the level 3 ability to attack with an off hand.

Now those seem pretty good, very good for the duelist idea of using Rapier and Dagger no doubt.

Now lets look at the feats.
Two-Weapon Panache, it requires panache feature and Two-weapon fighting feat.
This allows you to attack with an off-hand attack while using the precise strike deed, the off-hand does not gain the benefit of the precise strike deed.
[In short this allows you to make an attack with your dagger in the offhand while still using Precise Strike with your Rapier in primary hand.)

Improved Two-Weapon Panache, it requires Two-Weapon Panache, Two-Weapon fighting, and Improved Two-Weapon Fighting.
This applies the benefits of the Precise Strike deed to all offhand attacks with a light or one-handed piercing weapon.
(Now this seems very powerful, as it means every hit of your dagger is dealing level to damage, as well as your rapier in the primary hand.)

Are these too good for the common game? Would this make the Swashbuckler OP?
Of coursing tagging this onto a Daring Champion would mean it can stack the damage of TWF onto its Challenge and twice the benefits of precise strike.

Now I will point out that it says Amateur Swashbuckler is needed for this, or Panache class feature, but AS does not grant you Precise Strike, so I am not sure how this would work?

There are other feats worth Note, such as the Redirect Force or Shielded Panache but for now I wish to discuss what I have written above.

[true_shinken]

I gave the Swashbuckler in my game (built waaaay back in the playtest) the ability to add Precise Strike damage and to use Precise Strike with two weapons through a single homebrewed feat. It works okay. He still gets outdamaged by the Paladin archer and the Magus.

[Alexander Augunas]

The balancing point for the "precise strike with TWF" bit is simple: you need one feat to TWF without locking yourself out of precise strike and a second to actually add the damage to your off-hand attacks.

Two feats for that damage bonus is a reasonable cost, especially when those feats have other prerequisites (namely Two-Weapon Fighting and Improved Two-Weapon Fighting.)

If you have any other questions, please ask! But maybe separate your questions a little? I had trouble figuring out what you were asking in your post.

[Aincrad Survivor]

I apologize for any difficulty in reading the questions.

Yes I figured with a human it would take you to level 7 to get this build online. Also unless using a Light weapon this means you are taking a -4 to each attack to add level to damage.

Now if it was multiplied on Critical Hits I would say it was over powered, the Paladin can do that, but a Swashbuckler Paladin Two Weapon fighting would be wicked with this archetype/feat combo.

[Servitor of the Faith]

Kasatha dual wielding Bastard Swords (With the extra hand on the weapon for x1.5 Str) equipped with Effortless Lace using this Archetype and Feats would be pretty hard to out damage or am I wrong?

[Alexander Augunas]

Servitor of the Faith wrote:

Kasatha dual wielding Bastard Swords (With the extra hand on the weapon for x1.5 Str) equipped with Effortless Lace using this Archetype and Feats would be pretty hard to out damage or am I wrong?

Thank about what you're asking: essentially, if I had four arms and I wield two weapons with two hands per weapon, can I use all of these abilities that require me to be using one-handed weapons.

To elaborate, if you wield a weapon in two hands, its a two-handed weapon, not a one-handed weapon. This is why the swashbuckler CAN'T normally two-hand a bastard sword despite being a one-handed weapon; having four hands doesn't change what you're doing.

Basically, what happens is this:
— You have two bastard swords. You wield both bastard swords with two hands.
— Effortless lace deactivates, because it only words with one-handed weapons. By wielding the weapon in two hands, its no longer a one-handed weapon.
— Swashbuckler finesse turns off, as it only cares about light or one-handed weapons.
— Precise strike deed turns off, because you're no longer wielding light or one-handed weapons.
— You're left two-handing two sub-optimal weapons with no precision damage, massive TWF penalties, and no Dex to attack or damage.

Also, here's a list of the feats that you'd need to pull this off:

Weapon Finesse (swashbuckler's finesse)
Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword
Slashing Grace
Two-Weapon Fighting
Two-Weapon Panache
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (requires BAB +11)
Improved Two-Weapon Panache

So in order to get everything you're asking about, you'd need to be at least 11th level.

[Servitor of the Faith]

Improved Two-Weapon is a +6 BAB.

And I suppose you are right.