Hello everyone!
I have a question about how damage increases by size. I have seen a couple (well, more than a couple) threads about similar things, but I want to ask about this specific instance.
Monk, level 20. Human. 2d10 unarmed strike damage.
Add Enlarge Person, now flags as large size monk - 4d8 per monk rules.
Lead Blades spell (some contention if this works on monks, for intents of this thread let us say it does) - what does this go to? Lead Blade's chart doesn't continue past 4d8. Some tables show 6d8 (Bestairy chart, in (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qwfo?Can-we-please-get-an-FAQ-posted-for-dama ge)), another shows 8d6 (Improved natural attack table, same thread). I am unsure
And to make things more fun, lets add on strong jaw. Now by my reckoning, you were dealing damage as huge after leaf blades, and this increases by 2 sizes. What do?
All said and done, I need to know what table to use for this. I found the faq, but was confused by it. Maybe I just need clarification.
Thanks ahead of time!
Bonuses of the same type don't stack, you only the biggest one. In this case, the biggest bonus would be the 2 size categories from Strong Jaw.
Size increases and effective size increases: How does damage work if I have various effects that change my actual size, my effective size, and my damage dice?
As per the rules on size changes, size changes do not stack, so if you have multiple size changing effects (for instance an effect that increases your size by one step and another that increases your size by two steps), only the largest applies. The same is true of effective size increases (which includes “deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are,” “your damage die type increases by one step,” and similar language). They don’t stack with each other, just take the biggest one. However, you can have one of each and they do work together (for example, enlarge person increasing your actual size to Large and a bashing shield increasing your shield’s effective size by two steps, for a total of 2d6 damage).
Size Changes, Effective Size Changes, and Damage Dice Progression: I'm confused by how to increase and decrease manufactured and natural weapon damage dice when the weapon's size or effective size changes. There's a bunch of different charts, and I'm not sure which to use.
When the damage dealt by a creature’s weapons or natural attacks changes due to a change in its size (or the size of its weapon), use the following rules to determine the new damage.• If the size increases by one step, look up the original damage on the chart and increase the damage by two steps. If the initial size is Small or lower (or is treated as Small or lower) or the initial damage is 1d6 or less, instead increase the damage by one step.
• If the size decreases by one step, look up the original damage on the chart and decrease the damage by two steps. If the initial size is Medium or lower (or is treated as Medium or lower) or the initial damage is 1d8 or less, instead decrease the damage by one step.
• If the exact number of original dice is not found on this chart, apply the following before adjusting the damage dice. If the damage is a number of d6, find the next lowest number of d6 on the chart and use that number of d8 as the original damage value (for example, 10d6 would instead be treated as 8d8). If the damage is a number of d8, find the next highest number of d8 on the chart and use that number of d6 as the original damage value (for example, 5d8 would instead be treated as 6d6). Once you have the new damage value, adjust by the number of steps noted above.
• If the die type is not referenced on this chart, apply the following rules before adjusting the damage dice. 2d4 counts as 1d8 on the chart, 3d4 counts as 2d6 on the chart, and so on for higher numbers of d4. 1d12 counts as 2d6 on the chart, and so on for higher numbers of d12.
• Finally, 2d10 increases to 4d8 and decreases to 2d8, regardless of the initial size, and so on for higher numbers of d10.Damage Dice Progression Chart
1
1d2
1d3
1d4
1d6
1d8
1d10
2d6
2d8
3d6
3d8
4d6
4d8
6d6
6d8
8d6
8d8
12d6
12d8
16d6
Thanks for the quick replies
@ Brain in a Jar
To make sure I understand, Enlarge Person, which is an actual size change, makes me 4d8. Then I could only benefit from one 'damage as though x size' effect. So I would either take 'Impact Enchant' or 'Lead Blades' or 'Strong Jaw', since all of them are damage as though x size categories bigger.
Right? Or am I wrong somewhere.
If my understanding is correct, my enlarged monk (to large) deals 4d8 which Strong Jaw increases to 6d8?
And on a different topic, what about feats and spells? Hypothetically (not looking at actual numbers, just idea), lets say a druid has 4d8 on his natural attack, takes improved natural attack feat, and then casts strong jaw. They are both increase size category effect, but since one of them is a feat does that matter?
Thanks for the quick replies
@ Brain in a Jar
To make sure I understand, Enlarge Person, which is an actual size change, makes me 4d8. Then I could only benefit from one 'damage as though x size' effect. So I would either take 'Impact Enchant' or 'Lead Blades' or 'Strong Jaw', since all of them are damage as though x size categories bigger.
Right? Or am I wrong somewhere.
If my understanding is correct, my enlarged monk (to large) deals 4d8 which Strong Jaw increases to 6d8?
And on a different topic, what about feats and spells? Hypothetically (not looking at actual numbers, just idea), lets say a druid has 4d8 on his natural attack, takes improved natural attack feat, and then casts strong jaw. They are both increase size category effect, but since one of them is a feat does that matter?
6d8 for the Monk sounds correct.
And Improved Natural Attack and Strong Jaw don't stack.
Thank you guys very much for the help! So the source of the bonus doesn't matter, its just like magic items vs spells vs feats etc. Insight bonuses don't stack, dodge bonuses do, size increases don't.
Awesome, and tyvm!
Enlarge person puts you at 4d8, each size category increase moves you two spots up the chart so if you use strong jaw after that 4d8 goes to 6d8 which goes to 8d8
so lvl 20 monk enlarges with strong jaw will do 8d8 per hit
Oh two spots on the chart? Good to know. Thanks for that, I was thinking each size bump was only one on the chart.