Surprise Shift


Rules Questions


Can you Surprise Shift and 5 foot step in the same round?

Surprise Shift
The ranger can move 5 feet as a swift action. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity and does not count as a 5-foot step.

5-foot step
You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can't take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can't take a 5-foot step in the same round that you move any distance.

Surprise shift says it doesn't count as a 5-foot step, to get around the can't take more then one 5-foot step rule, but it still is movement and 5-foot step says you can't take it in the same round you move any distance.


Nope. Surprise Shift qualifies as "moving any distance".


There is debate on whether 'perform any other kind of movement and move any distance' means taking any kind of move action (or equivalent) that uses one of your speeds, or whether it means any effect/action/ability has altered your position.

As far as I know, both have some reasonable points and there is nothing absolutely definitive for either case.

As such, you will probably get a lot of differing answers.

For myself, I fall in the move action that uses a speed being the movement they are talking about, under that interpretation a swift action that teleports you (or just lets you move normally) wouldn't prevent a 5' step.


I'm curious Dave: could you lay that interpretation out?

I ask because for a long time that's what I thought, and then I re-read 5' Step and... I can't see how to parse that sentence in such a way that the "move any distance" portion would allow it.


We could look at it like this: if Surprise Shift does not count as a 5' step then how can it be used.

1) You can Surprise Shift and then take a move or full action to move normally. This can get you out of a threatened range and then allow you to do something else.

2) You can Surprise Shift and then take a 5' step normally since the Surprise Shift does not count as a 5' step.
However, this violates the did not move clause of a 5' step. Is that the intent though?

I don't think there are any problems with #1.

For #2, I think that the intent may be to allow you to shift and then 5' step (only the author would know for sure) but as written it would appear you cannot use Surprise Shift and take a 5' step.

BTW, it would be helpful if, when you give a citation, you included the source.

Sovereign Court

I think the intent was never clear here.


Eltacolibre, well I guess it is good I did not say that the intent was clear. I said "the intent may be" and "only the author would know for sure".

Sovereign Court

Not attacking your response, just saying, looking at it, I seriously can't tell what was the point of it.

I suppose, as a skirmisher ranger, you might not need to use swift actions as much for anything.


The point is that we do not know the intent, I presented a possible intent and then a statement that that possible intent doesn't work by RAW.

IF the author of the ability intended for it to work in combination with a 5' step then he erred.

We may want to find out who authored it and ask him if for nothing else than to satisfy curiosity (because short of a FAQ/Errata it would still not work according to RAW).


The distinction between the two camps mostly lies in the interpretation of the term 'move' and 'moving'.

The stricter interpretation views it as being, for any reason, in a different position than before. As I said, there is justification for this. This primarily uses the word move in a normal English sense of the word

The other interpretation hinged on move being a 'term of art' in Pathfinder with a very specific definition relating to move actions (and related full-round actions, like a charge) used to access one of movement modes, and change your position. Basically taking the Move-Action: Move.

Another way of looking at it, is that if I use the swift action: Surprise Shift, what I did was activate a swift action, while that action moved me, I didn't myself move.


If the intent was that it not be used with a 5' step still being possible, they wouldn't have called out "this doesn't count as a 5' step".

Also, that would mean that you COULD 5' step, and THEN Surprise Shift since you can take Swift actions after your 5' step, and you haven't spent any movement yet, so a 5' step is legal.

I think if RAW you CAN do it one way, then RAI you can do it the other too. Order of actions shouldn't prevent you from doing something that you could with the same number of actions put in a different order (unless it specifically calls out ending other actions after being done, like Dimension Door).


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
Canthin wrote:
If the intent was that it not be used with a 5' step still being possible, they wouldn't have called out "this doesn't count as a 5' step".

I think they called that out so that you know that you can combine a surprise shift with regular movement.

Canthin wrote:
Also, that would mean that you COULD 5' step, and THEN Surprise Shift since you can take Swift actions after your 5' step, and you haven't spent any movement yet, so a 5' step is legal.

I don't think so. Once you've five-foot-stepped, no surprise shifing for you (because it's movement). Conversely, once you've surprise shifted, no five foot steps for you.

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