Question about Craft skill

[john_harvey]

I'm having a little trouble understanding Craft (and Profession and Performing, for that matter). Am I to understand that I'm allowed to have any number of Craft skills I want? So my character could technically craft anything? o_O Are there limitations on this (and Profession and Perform)?

[Bob Bob Bob]

Craft represents multiple skills with the exact same rules.

Craft wrote:

You are skilled in the creation of a specific group of items, such as armor or weapons. Like Knowledge, Perform, and Profession, Craft is actually a number of separate skills.

You pick a version to put points into, and you can pick multiple versions. So you can put a rank into Craft (armor) and one into Craft (weapons). But each of them cost ranks and are completely separate from each other. So if you put a rank into Craft (weapon) it doesn't add ranks to any other Craft skills.

[john_harvey]

If Craft is one of my class skills, though, does that mean I have to specifically put ranks in it to use - even though it's a CS?

[wraithstrike]

The rules tell you which skill you have to be trained(have a rank) in to use and which ones you do not. Being a class skill does not change whether or not you must have a rank in a skill to use it.

As an example you must have a rank in use magic device in order to use it even if it is a class skill.

[VRMH]

john_harvey wrote:

If Craft is one of my class skills, though, does that mean I have to specifically put ranks in it to use

No. Craft skills can be used "untrained": everyone can use them. But when they're Class Skills and you put at least one skill-point in them, you get a +3 bonus on the roll.

[john_harvey]

VRMH's post brings me back to my first question, though. If Craft doesn't require training, doesn't that mean I could potentially Craft anything?

[Milo v3]

john_harvey wrote:

VRMH's post brings me back to my first question, though. If Craft doesn't require training, doesn't that mean I could potentially Craft anything?

You could craft anything non-alchemical and non-magical. It would just take a ridiculous amount of time.

[Bob Bob Bob]

Yes, you can craft any mundane items you want (and alchemical ones too, Craft (alchemy) is the skill you use for them). It's just... difficult. You have to hit the Craft DC for every week of work (unless you do it by the day, then it's per day), progress is check result times DC in silver pieces (divided by 7 if you do it by the day), if you fail by 5 or more you ruin half of the ingredients and have to rebuy them. Craft (alchemy) requires a lab, the others just give you a penalty if you use improvised tools. You can take 10. The problem is that many DCs are pretty high and work is slow.

Some examples:

You want to make an acid flask. You need to buy 3.33 gp worth of ingredients and make a DC 15 Craft (alchemy) check. You need either a masterwork lab and 16 Int or 20 Int to make this untrained with take 10, at the bare minimum gives you 22.5 gp a week, you can do it by the day and it'll take 4 days. If you do it without take 10 (because you need 11 or more) there's a 93.75% chance you screw up at least once in four days. You're better off by the week (less checks) but it'll take way longer.

You want to make an alchemist's fire. You need to buy 6.67 gp worth of ingredients and make a DC 20 Craft (alchemy) check. You need either a masterwork lab and 26 Int or 30 Int to make this untrained with take 10, at the bare minimum you make 40 gp a week, per day it'll take 4 days (again). Same failure chance as the other one without take 10, by the week is still better.

You want to make a masterwork martial melee weapon. Let's say short sword. First is the sword, this works exactly like the acid flask (DC 15, 3.33 gp of ingredients) except you use Craft (weapon) and need blacksmithing tools. Then you need to make the masterwork item. This will end up being like the alchemist's fire, except that the ingredients cost 100 gp and with the bare minimum check it will take you 7 weeks and 4 days.

[Joesi]

This is off topic, but regarding the crafting rules that Bob Bob Bob mentioned: I do some simple house rules to make crafting more viable and/or logical:

1. You can make the DC to craft the item as hard as you want (as long as it's as-hard or harder than the stated DC). This allows faster crafting, and means you'll craft things at the same speed instead of harder things taking less time and easier things taking more time (totally illogical)

2. If your craft check was sufficiently high enough, multiple items would be created that day. The time it takes for each item to be made would be the appropriate percentage of that 8 hours of work. This is hardly even a house rule in my opinion (although officially I think it is)

Lastly, it isn't a house rule, but you can take 10 during crafting. This makes everything extremely simple when combined with those previous 2 rules, since it means you have a "budget" of how much gold worth of items you can craft per day or week, regardless of what mix-and-match items you choose to craft over any time frame.

[Milo v3]

Bob Bob Bob wrote:

Yes, you can craft any mundane items you want (and alchemical ones too, Craft (alchemy) is the skill you use for them).

Don't you need to be a spellcaster to craft alchemical items though? Or did PF change that?

[wraithstrike]

Milo v3 wrote:

Bob Bob Bob wrote:

Yes, you can craft any mundane items you want (and alchemical ones too, Craft (alchemy) is the skill you use for them).

Don't you need to be a spellcaster to craft alchemical items though? Or did PF change that?

You just need alchemical equipment. No more spellcaster levels needed.