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Let me start by saying that I'm a novice GM and RotR AE is my first campaign. I've yet to master creating ad hoc balanced encounters. My goal is to personally have fun and to ensure that my players have fun while feeling challenged by what they encounter. I'm not setting out to kill PCs per se, although if that happens via PC stupidity or really bad luck, c'est la vie.
I've read the thread on creating a better Nualia fight, but I need some additional help because my party is very overpowered. I gave everyone a 20 point buy because we only have 3 players, although one player voluntarily opted to use the 15 point buy anyway. For most of the sessions so far there's only been 2 players present. Even so, they've been able to easily handle pretty much everything thrown at them.
The party consists of a good-aligned, min-maxed 15 point buy duergar barbarian/alchemist wielding a naganata who, at first level, was able to dish out 80 points of max damage on a crit and is now able to craft his own mutagens, a half-orc barbarian who's a tank and also no slouch on dealing damage, a tiefling magus who's very squishy and is run by the player who is frequently absent, and a party-owned PC aasimar oracle who is little more than a heal bot.
After the goblin invasion of Sandpoint and the revelation of the goblins' true objectives in the boneyard, the party set out the next morning--skipping all of the other chapters in Burnt Offerings--and tracked the goblins back to their lair. I added some encounters along the way to give them enough XP to reach level 2. Once they arrived, they made short work of everything through the first level of Thistletop largely with only 2 combatant PCs, but including Aldern Foxglove up to the bridge trap, and the heal bot hanging back and not getting involved in the fighting. After finishing off Ripnugget, they reached level 3.
Even though they cut through most everything like a hot knife through butter, they did incur enough damage--much of which came from the bridge trap for the half-orc barbarian--that they mostly drained the oracle of her healing abilities and they needed to rest for the night by barracading themselves in the throne room. That's not necessarily smart on their part, but I didn't want to be an evil GM by having everything from the lower levels swarm up and kill the party in their sleep, so instead I gave everyone in the levels below a Perception and Wisdom check to notice all the noise upstairs and, if they did notice it at all, to realize that it was more than goblins just being goblins.
Sadly, Tsuto was the only one to succeed on both, so he went upstairs to check things out. The party heard him trying to open the upper stairway door they'd barricaded and they promptly opened the door and killed Tsuto for his trouble. The party then went downstairs and were ambushed by Orik and Bruthazmus who flanked the doorway to the bottom of the stairwell but both missed on their attacks. During a relatively short battle--but slightly more challenging than most of what the party's encountered so far--the duergar one-shotted Bruthazmus and Orik surrendered shortly thereafter. The party then hauled the bodies upstairs and barred the doors to the stairs again as they prepared to rest for the night.
Now, I am going to allow the party to rest through the night, although it won't necessarily be peaceful. Here's what I'm thinking of doing based in large part upon the things people have posted in other threads:
Orik will fill the party in on what he knows and he'll be fighting with them the next day. He'll also ask them not to kill Lyrie. I'm not sure how I'll have him react if they do kill her, although turning on the party is an option. Although they're likely to honor his request, things could get sticky when Lyrie finds out Tsuto is dead. Should Orik be wise enough to alert the party beforehand not to confirm this fact to her?
Nualia and Lyrie will definitely be barracading each stairway and setting up a trap for the party. The goblins that would have been at the glassworks had the party not skipped most of the adventure will be there as well. (I had forgotten about them as I was running the last session, which is why they weren't there to bail Tsuto out.)
Nualia could have the hounds baying all night to unnerve the party. The fear effect won't take hold because they're behind walls and doors, but I'm thinking that I could make the party roll a Will save to see if it unnerves them and disrupts their sleep enough that for them to be fatigued the next day. If that's too harsh, I could just have the hounds bay for flavor with no effect other than to inoculate Lyrie and the goblins from the fear effect. Also, I may have Malfeshnekor whispering in the night to one or more of the players... "Free me..."
As for the actual fight, I could have a couple of goblins posted at each stairway ready to fire arrows at the party as they're trying to break down the barracades. After that, my plan is to have the goblins draw the players into an ambush in the chapel where the party can be zerg rushed and surrounded by the remaining goblins and the yeth hounds. I haven't decided if Lyrie and/or Nualia will participate or not. Regardless, I'm afraid that this tactic will likely end in a TPK. If the PCs are playing smartly yet are heading toward a TPK, I could have Shalelu--who the party hasn't met yet--be in the area spying on Thistletop and coming to their rescue at the last moment when she notices something's amiss around the outskirts of the fort.
As a side note, should the goblin wives be armed and/or part of the ambush? I could use them as a form of moral dilemma leading into, as a part of, or after the ambush if they're unarmed and not actively attacking. For added effect, maybe I could have one or two of the goblin warriors haul the babies' cages into the chapel and set them loose when the PCs enter.
If Nualia and Lyrie decide to make their last stand in the lower level in room E5, I could potentially have the fight spill over into Malfeshnekor's room if the duo decide to do everything they can to open the portal and the door to his prison. I'm not sure if that's smart on my part as the GM to do this, though: The party mostly does melee and has little to no ranged attack capabilities and so would be forced to get up close and personal with Mal if they think it's necessary to fight him. If they do this while Nualia and Lyrie are alive and hemming them in... game over. Even with Nualia and Lyrie out of the way, it'll likely be game over unless the PCs realize that they can just walk away and close the door, though if they decide to go toe-to-toe with Mal in that case, they would deserve the ensuing TPK. ;-p
(I'm assuming Nualia's not been letting anyone else down there until now in fear that someone else will free Mal and get the credit instead of her as mentioned in one of the referenced threads... It's the only thing that can rationally explain why she's not been able to find and open the portal by now, although I don't think that even working together and taking 20 that she and Lyrie can spot the means to open the portal, so I'd have to go with GM fiat. Following through with this scenario would be more plausible had Tsuto survived and his ungodly perception bonus been available.)
How does all that sound? Assuming the chapel ambush doesn't sound too TPK-ish already, should Lyrie alone or Lyrie and Nualia together be a part of it, or would it work better challenge-wise and thematically if one or both of those two holed up on the secord sublevel behind the trap? Yes/no on having Nualia and Lyrie working together through the night to open the portal and door to Mal's prison? Are there better ways for me to go about providing this overpowered party with challenging and memorable encounters without making a TPK likely?
As for Mal, it might be fun for the party to find the portal and open it themselves, but so far they've missed every single secret door and hidden item they've passed except one: They found the holy symbol of Lamashtu under Ripnugget's pillow, but only after I practically led them by the nose to it by not-so-subtly encouraging them (multiple times) to check the bed more thoroughly.
Now, having laid all that out, my party will likely do something completely unexpected and force me to throw all of my plans out the window. :-/
If you really, really want to be a bastard, swap out one of her feats for Command Undead and give her control of 2 of the shadows from the tomb.
I actually swapped those out for different monsters in my own run as they're just too deadly at that level, IMO, but if they're really that overpowered...
Even if Aldern appeared to have died, his transformation could have been sufficiently advanced that he recovered as a...
My experience with the Sinspawn was that they were too easy to kill. They look really horrible, so why not beef up their statistics, make them, say 4HD monsters.
The Yeth hounds were brutal for my 3rd level PCs. Played right, they should have been a major challenge, and anyone who fails that fear save...
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Thanks to everyone who provided ideas, suggestions and constructive criticism! I'm going to try to keep everything in mind as I prepare for the next session, which thankfully is a little over a week away still. The suggested alternative builds for Nualia might give me some flexibility if I put together stat blocks for each of them and choose whichever one best fits the circumstances my party finds themselves in at the point where they meet her.
One thing you could do (I did this) is have Nualia complete part three of the ritual before the players arrive making her a half-succubus.
Great idea, although what kind of sacrifice would Lamashtu normally require for something like that?
Keep in mind, my players assaulted Thistletop the day after the festival. There was barely enough time for Tsuto to have returned from Sandpoint with Father Tobyn's remains and for Nualia to have performed the sacrifice to obtain her demonic right arm. Would she have the time and resources to perform another sacrifice the very next night? Giving her the half-succubus transformation seems a little forced to me, although I can run with it if there's the tiniest bit of a plausable explanation.
Having the players arrive in the temple in time to witness Nualia's transformation would be cool, but I imagine that a Lamashtan ritual like that would probably happen at night. Alternatively, I could have whoever's keeping watch during the middle of the upcoming night hear Nualia's pained screams as she either gains a demonic arm or transforms into a half-succubus.
The players see Nualia, see what she's doing and the fact she's birthing.
They get a few minutes to prepare and Nualia births a demon that joins her in the fight and grows up super fast thanks to Lamashtu's help.
Has the wonderful squick factor of really being Lamashtan
Nice! I can imagine my players doing everything they can to bash down the wall of force, which should be amusing. On the other hand, I agree with Lanassa that Nualia may want to confront the party in the temple rather than wait for them in the death trap down below—perhaps more so for her than for the party. Maybe she can be laying on the altar protected by a wall of force while giving birth as the party is fighting everything else, only for her to give birth shortly after the party kills the minions. It may distract the players from the fight as one of the PCs may futilely try to get to her.
Doing that could give me less flexibility in chosing how Nualia confronts the party based on how they're surviving the initial onslaught, though. Perhaps I can have multiple demon templates of varying difficulty ready to use depending upon what I think will challenge the party the most without necessarily setting them up for a likely TPK. Hmmm….
I actually swapped those out for different monsters in my own run as they're just too deadly at that level, IMO, but if they're really that overpowered...
Thanks for the heads up! I'll need to look at the shadows more closely again.
My experience with the Sinspawn was that they were too easy to kill.
You’re right, my party took down a sinspawn at level 1 in only two rounds.
I hope Aldern didn't die outside Thistletop, or you'll have to rewrite most of book 2!
I unintentionally left that part of the backstory in my initial post ambiguous. No, Aldern survived the bridge trap and is quite alive and well, though separated from the party--to both my and the PCs' relief--and back in Sandpoint. He was actually useful in helping the PCs track the goblins back to Thistletop and having him tag along allowed the PCs to experience the full Aldern in all his foppish glory.
He turned out to be a lot more memorable that way: When he first met up with them at the Rusty Dragon, the players couldn't remember who he was and I had to remind them that they'd saved him the day before during the goblin attack. I was also able to introduce a foreshadowing moment for book 2 when
Hey, we all learn in the process! The point is, as you say, to have fun.
Oh yes, my players are definitely having fun despite, or perhaps even because of the way I've mishandled some things and have had to improvise on the spot because of it. I could probably start and curate my own thread on what not to do as a newbie GM. ;-)
It's been really comical the way things have turned out, but I have an understanding group who have been very supportive in allowing themselves to be my guinea pigs as I get my feet wet GM-ing.)
Not to mention that the PCs didn't enjoy the 'Sandpoint Heroes' status they're supposed to! The Glassworks incident needs to hapen for a number of reasons, just to mention a few: it organically ties the PCs to Sanpoint, its history and certain inhabitants; it can be an opportunity to reveal part of Nualia's background and motives; it introduces aspects of ancient Thassilon; it foreshadows later events.
Yea, I know. I've done what I can to remedy that, and they've actually been to the glassworks and discovered a bunch of things before the goblin attack. The entire adventure nearly unraveled completely during the 1st session in part due to PC actions and largely due to mistakes on my part, but I was able to pull things back on track. The actual goblin attack didn't start until the very end of the 1st session, and that's where we left things before running the combat at the start of the 2nd session.
If anyone's interested in the lurid details as to how and why the adventure went off the rails so badly, I can start my own campaign journal in the appropriate forum.
In any case, the party is now more or less invested in Sandpoint. They also now have possession of Tsuto's journal which I'll try to get them to look at before they hunker down for the night just in case its contents will prompt them to go back to Sandpoint and first deal with the catacombs instead. If they don't deal with the catacombs before or immediately after finishing up with Thistletop, I can always beef up the encounters in the catacombs for book 5.
Remember that yeth hounds fly and goblins have excellent stealth. This already sounds like a TPK for a 2nd level party but you can always hint at them that running IS an option.
Yea, they could flee. I’m afraid that they won’t, though. The first time I GM’d, I ran a one-shot and I TPK’d the party because I threw too much at them and none of the PCs even thought about retreating. Because of that experience, I'm a little gun-shy about having a repeat performance. That's why I'm inclined to let them rest through the night. (I may reconsider that over the next week, though. I could try to get the yeth hounds to burst through the barricades and fear attack them into running back to Sandpoint.)
The PCs began their assault on Thistletop at 2nd level after I threw some extra encounters and a Karzoug-themed trapped mini-dungeon at them. They're actually now at 3rd level after having killed Ripnugget. By the adventure’s progression chart, they should now be at 4th level due to XP after defeating Tsuto, Bruthazmus and Orik, but I’m keeping them on the medium level-by-XP progression since it seems that the effective APL of this particular group of PCs is one level higher than the level of the individual characters.
Anyway, thanks again for the feedback!