Crafting a better Nualia fight.


Rise of the Runelords


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I know this has probably been done over a million times in the 10 years this AP has existed, but I'm coming up on it and after the last time I ran Nualia, I really want this time to be better.

I don't like the way the fight is, by default, set up, what with it's 1x1 corridors leading to and from her room meaning that any sort of push into the hallways basically creates a conga-line traffic jam, and her moving to the L-shaped room is the only way to give her some room to move around in. The last time I did, she ended the fight with Obscuring Mist as per writing, but all it did was turn combat into a boring slugfest of 50% miss chance that no one enjoyed, and she couldn't even retreat because the only way she knew was blocked by PCs.

So I want to do this better. Currently, my party just engaged Bruthazmus after descending to Level 1 after entering an alarm-raised Thistletop, they're mostly out of spells and I suspect the challenge of Level 1 will drain them a lot. So I'm not worried about Nualia being too strong (though I may give her all three dogs on the lower level, since she has warning they're coming).

What I want to come up with is some interesting things for the fight itself. Is starting in the Observatory really a good move? Removing that means that the only other option is the L-room, and even that ain't huge. Obviously we want the trap, so the first room is out. Have you guys come up with any ways of making her fight really interesting and memorable?

The thing that springs to mind is a last-minute Obscuring Mist use to cover a retreat to the Crypt where she hopes the Shadows will deal with the PCs when they chase her in, but I don't know if that's enough.


Have her start in room 1 fully buffed up, then let her retreat down the hall casting obscuring mist (if the PCs follow suit, the trap will be sprung 100%, if not, you could use the mist to taunt them which I like for atmospheric reasons),
swop shatter for darkness and have her shut/lock the door to the observatory and set up an ambush for a surprise attack when the PCs fiddle with the door.
Have her retreat further down the L-shaped hall and let the hounds attack as yet another surprise.
If she needs to retreat let her cast hold person and/or sanctuary (this is not the cleric you're looking for) and try to escape.

The shadows would not help her aka ignore her and fight the PCs, IMO.

Ruyan.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

In addition to Ruyan's ideas, add in a Tanglefoot bag or 2 and a Thunderstone, replace the shadows with 6 zombies (animated by Naulia using Lesser Animate Dead).

The run and gun strategy, combined with the added body mass of hounds and zombies will keep Naulia alive long enough without adding overkill to the fight. Her tactics will keep forcing the party to over extend itself, and not knowing where the next threat is going to come from.


I could giver her a million tricks to throw out, but unless one of them is Dimension Door, she still has no way of escaping as long as there's a body in the hallway, and that's the major issue I want to skirt.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Ah, you didn't specify that you wanted her to have an escape route.

Add a couple of smoke sticks and a potion of gaseous form.

She can float past them in the darkness/smoke it could work, and is a little less automatic. Gives her reason to target the casters first.


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Askren wrote:
I could giver her a million tricks to throw out, but unless one of them is Dimension Door, she still has no way of escaping as long as there's a body in the hallway, and that's the major issue I want to skirt.

This is exactly what I did. I made her holy symbol have the demension door ability 1/day. She dropped her bastard sword (giving the PC's a +1 item) and then used the spell like ability to escape.

After this they learned more about her and researched the ritual process for becoming a demon. They figured shes on step 2 possibly working towards 2.

Now at the end of Skinsaw murders Im adding a custom session. They will arrive to see her transform into a half fiend and fight her again with cultist and some summoned demons. The scary part, one of the PC's probably the paladin will be kidnapped at the party in magnimar that the lord mayor will throw to honor them. The Paladin will help her "consummate" her offering to Lamashtu. The remaining party members will be acting as detectives and uncover a hidden dungeon beneath one of the monuments in magnimar.

She will most likely escape again and they will fight her one last time as a demon, still unsure on what kind.


Barring Dim Door tricks, she will have to fight the party in either the L-shaped hall or the hellcat's hall. Only in those places will there be enough space for her to move past the party. She will, of course, eat some attacks of opportunity en route, but that's where those smoke sticks, etc. come into play. (It's too bad that her stats don't allow for Dodge and Mobility.)

Remember, if there is a surviving yeth hound, then it has the potential to split the party up by forcing some to run away (it got 50% of the characters in my first group of RotR players).


You could always engineer some other escape route: have her release Mal (you're the GM after all) and have another way up in his former prison; or you could have her escape via the tunnel in the former treasure room: this could anger the crab (Nualia managed to slip by and when the PCs arrive on her heels the crab attacks the PCs, delaying them.

After that: what Dynas wrote.

Ruyan.


I gave her a dimension door and had her return to seek her revenge attacking Sandpoint , then after the pc's killed her I had her return as a Succubus demon to help Karzoug kill them. As I had made her an antipaladin the succubus helped her a lot, otherwise not sure what demon I would have gone with


My first time through Nualia flubbed a Ghoul Touch save and was coup de graced...

In preparation for the second time, I put Nualia, Lyrie, and X yeth hounds in the temple. The game was for a group of 8 or 9 players, which is why both NPCs and the hounds were all encountered at once...but I imagine it could be toned down. But yeah, lack of space and escape options was a big part of why I put them there. Unfortunately I didn't get to run the encounter, as that group fell apart...but when I do eventually run Rise again I'll be going with that as the vague plan.


Fraust wrote:

My first time through Nualia flubbed a Ghoul Touch save and was coup de graced...

In preparation for the second time, I put Nualia, Lyrie, and X yeth hounds in the temple. The game was for a group of 8 or 9 players, which is why both NPCs and the hounds were all encountered at once...but I imagine it could be toned down. But yeah, lack of space and escape options was a big part of why I put them there. Unfortunately I didn't get to run the encounter, as that group fell apart...but when I do eventually run Rise again I'll be going with that as the vague plan.

Ditto here. My group took out everything on the ground floor except for Ripnugget and Bruthazmus (who fought alongside the goblins - I moved him - the pc's approach let Gogmurt warn Ripnugget and he had time to call for help.) The goblin chief and bugbear had been left for dead (dying) but the goblin wives, Orik and Lyrie dragged them downstairs while the PC's hunted down goblins who had broken morale and run amok through the complex, even taking some out trying to flee across the trap-released rope bridge. Nualia rallied her surviving forces and barricaded the both sets of stairs, reinforced with a yeth hound. The pc's tried to force the barricades but a couple howls sent them running and they decided to retreat and rest. Both groups regained spells, etc. overnight knowing a fight would happen the next day. Ripnugget and Bruthazmus were at half hp (through cure spells and potions) when the pc's assaulted the next morning. Nualia, Lyrie and the 3 hounds were in the Temple; the bugbear, Ripnugget, Orik and the goblin wives were assembled in the hallway outside. There are only 4 pc's in my group (fighter, cleric, wizard, bard.) They were hard-pressed at points (the fighter went through his hp 3 times via healing from the cleric) but after taking out the wounded bugbear and goblin chief and forcing Orik to surrender (at 1 hp) they carved their way through the hounds. Some good will saves were called for. (In this alignment the hounds need to wait to howl until most or all of the warrior types fall.) Lyrie went up in flames from a well placed burning hands and Nualia died shortly thereafter.

It makes no sense for Nualia to be found in E4. And it makes no sense for those on the 1st dungeon level to be in the dark about any attack at ground level. Any incursion should be met with an overwhelming counterattack. The goblins are too crazy to respond effectively but none of the dungeon residents have that problem - they should know they either fight together or die alone. Unless the pc's are very stealthy, Nualia should be rallying her forces in the temple when the pc's get to the dungeon itself and the occupants should come at them in waves (except of course the static creatures - tentamort, Malfeshnekor, shadows, crab.) Even if stealthy, everyone should be calling for aid in any fight, alerting all the other occupants (who should come running - except for Lyrie who fetches Nualia and then they come running.)

The community-created errata notes Nualia doesn't qualify for power attack - consider replacing it with Command Undead. That let's her use those Shadows. She can only command one at a time but if forced she can stand outside the crypt and call them to her one at a time. She might even have one enthralled when first encountered. Also, Nualia has more options for flight/escape if fighting on the 1st dungeon level vs. the 2nd. Anyone with 6 character levels including 2 of Fighter should recognize the 2nd level as a no-option fight-to-the-death trap.


Nualia is down on the 2nd level because she's trying to figure out how to free Bruthazmus. She's not worrying about the tactical positioning, she's obsessed with freeing the barghest and becoming a demon. She rarely comes up from that level (as evidenced by her bedroom on the 1st floor) and she isn't likely thinking escape until the point where she realizes she's completely outclassed.


Latrecis wrote:
It makes no sense for Nualia to be found in E4. And it makes no sense for those on the 1st dungeon level to be in the dark about any attack at ground level. Any incursion should be met with an overwhelming counterattack.

While I do agree with this, my group is currently at a point where after the first level of the fort (outside included), they're basically out of spells and running on melee alone. So while I know I could easily pile on the melee, I decided against it for the lower floors. Bruthazmus engaged them as soon as they hit the floor of the dungeon, so that's where we pick up next session, and I'll have Orik join him, but I think I'll put Tsuto, Lyrie, and Nualia + 3 Hounds on the second floor, because I feel like they should all go down together. Obviously Tsuto wants to be near Nualia, and Lyrie wants to be near Tsuto, and the bugbear and fighter are just there for the money so they won't be downstairs. What this does, I think, is give the players a challenging-ish fight up front, and then leave the dungeon floor free for them to explore before the real fight, because I want to break up the pacing a bit so it's not just a constant stream of action.

I actually think my goblins did pretty well, though. I originally messed up and forgot that the "sleeping" goblins in the barracks should be awake and waiting, so when the PCs entered the fort, I had the goblins run out of the bedroom screaming "We weren't sleeping! We fight intruders!", which the players loved. And then the last surviving one basically turned tail and ran back into the bedroom and jumped into his hammock, and when the PCs followed him he was like "Shh I sleeping!" which they also really enjoyed. The rest was set up like you'd expect, with a big fight in the throne room.

I do like the idea about commanding undead. My idea is not to make Nualia want to escape, but obviously she is smart enough to not let herself die, so I want her to have an option if things go south. It doesn't have to be a great option, just one that can make it so she has a chance to possibly slip away.


Kalshane wrote:
Nualia is down on the 2nd level because she's trying to figure out how to free Bruthazmus. She's not worrying about the tactical positioning, she's obsessed with freeing the barghest and becoming a demon. She rarely comes up from that level (as evidenced by her bedroom on the 1st floor) and she isn't likely thinking escape until the point where she realizes she's completely outclassed.

Okay, a couple points of clarity and a slightly off-topic rant.

Nualia should not be waiting to die in E4 if Thistletop is or has been under attack. If a DM's interpretation is that the goblins of the ground floor are too disorganized to call for help or warn anyone about an attack, I'm good to go. But all the occupants of the dungeon levels should behave differently - loudly calling for aid, retreating to nearby allies rather than fighting to the death where encountered, and so forth. Lyrie should immediately retreat to Nualia, the hounds should leave the temple if they hear anything, etc. You can play it as written if you want or need to, but the OP asked for a way to toughen up the Nualia encounter. One way is to play all the creatures in Thistletop a little smarter.

It's straying a bit off topic, but I'm going to stick by my guns - the design of the dungeon levels is nonsensical. Not the room layouts or contents, but the NPC placement and backstory. How long are we to assume Nualia and her crew have been at Thistletop? Several days, weeks really it seems. She has to initiate contact with Ripnugget, organize the other tribes, dispose of the gear of the barbarian who died in the trap in E3, import beds and such, stage the raid on Sandpoint, cavort with her boy toy, Tsuto and send him back to town to "rescue" his sister. Even if it's only a few days, Nualia and her allies have to be the most incompetent explorer/adventurers in the history of Golarion.

How daft do you have to be not to realize the immense gold coin stack is a secret door? But, you say, Nualia's perception is only +5, she can't find the opening mechanism of the secret door even if she takes 20. Sure enough, but Lyrie has Detect Secret Door in her spellbook. Nualia could cast Owl's Wisdom to boost her wisdom and then cast Guidance every round. She'll find it then. Or how about you have Tsuto and his +11 Perception check search before you send him off to die in Sandpoint? And what about the Crypt? My group opened the door, saw the room layout and after about 3 nanoseconds, pointed to the correct spot on the wall and said "There's a secret door right there." Even if you lack the imagination to figure that out, if you're being stymied at the coin door, you should take out the shadows and search for secret doors. Oh, and Nualia's percpetion is sufficient to find this one without any trouble.

By the time the pc's get there, the shadows and crab should be dead, the treasure looted and the path to Malfeshnekor clear. About all that could hold her up is figuring out how to free the barghest.


Latrecis wrote:
lots of good points

but... I figured she was in the process of trying to turn into a demon - she was down there alone because she was working on that process and wanted to be alone.

I also figured that goblins (being goblins) and yeth hounds (being yeth hounds) made one hell of a racket at all times so lots of noise wasn't going to really cause her to perk up.


Ckorik wrote:
Latrecis wrote:
lots of good points

but... I figured she was in the process of trying to turn into a demon - she was down there alone because she was working on that process and wanted to be alone.

I also figured that goblins (being goblins) and yeth hounds (being yeth hounds) made one hell of a racket at all times so lots of noise wasn't going to really cause her to perk up.

That's not bad by way of explanation though the rough plan as laid in in the AP is: free Malfeshnekor, he leads army of goblins against Sandpoint, Sandpoint is burned in sacrifice, Nualia transforms as reward. But it could be there are ritual steps, etc. that need to be researched. (Though one might think that would happen in the Temple to Lamashtu...)

And I'm not saying she would hear much on the 2nd dungeon level from issues above, I'm more saying the residents of the 1st dungeon level should have "fetch/inform Nualia" as primary tactics.


Oh, I completely agree that the enemies should just sit around twiddling their thumbs once the alarm is raised. There's no reason for Lyrie to sit around in her death trap of a room once it's clear they're under attack.

I just don't see Nualia leaving a pretty good defensive position (only single way in, protected by a trap) without a good reason. Like I said, I don't see her as being concerned about escape until it's obvious she's over-matched.

I don't see the Yeth Hounds going downstairs without orders, though. They're fairly low intelligence, and have been told to guard the temple.

However, I'm not sure the goblins being up in arms would necessarily alert the denizens of the 1st lower level to trouble. I imagine they're noisy a lot. Nualia can't hear them from two floors down. Bruthazmus is likely either asleep or distracted with the goblin wives. Orik really isn't invested in the cause and isn't in charge, so he's likely to just chalk it up to goblins being goblins. Lyrie is probably studying some relic from below and doesn't want to be interrupted by the latest goblin antics.

Now, if the Yeth Hounds in the temple bay (which my party managed to trigger), they'd have everyone's attention. (Though I had Nualia wait for a report from her underlings, otherwise it would have been a TPK.)


Overall Latrecis raises some good points. However, if Nualia, Lyrie, Tsuto, Orik, and Bruthazmus really get organized then the PCs ought to be in trouble. Instead I treated it as a dysfunctional family, with the various members mostly wanting to have as little to do with one another as possible.

For example; the goblins are happy to worship Lamashtu but think that Nualia is pretty scary, so they avoid her whenever possible. Meanwhile Nualia has little use for the goblins outside of the way they fit into her plans and finds them disgusting and irritating, so would rather not be bothered by them.

Nualia wants all the power to herself and won't let others downstairs unsupervised, and usually won't let them down there at all. She won't let anyone else do the searching out of a fear that Malfeshnekor will make a pact with someone else before she gets there.

Bruthazmus is the only one that gets along with the goblins generally but the rest of the group really dislikes him. Bruthazmus is happy with that and deliberately tries to annoy everyone else, except Nualia who scares him.

Tsuto loves Nualia; Nualia finds this convenient. Lyrie loves Tsuto; Tsuto finds this convenient.

Orik thinks everyone else is a prick and plans to split as soon as the platinum dries up.

Overall it seems lucky that they are as coordinated as they are. The alarm system seems to consist of screaming goblins running down corridors. If the goblins can be prevented from escaping, there really isn't much in the way of alarms.

I added another bunch of sleeping goblins in the larger room adjacent to the harem/bedroom where Bruthazmus was. The idea of that was to create an opportunity for goblins to get away and warn others if the party was unable to control the room. My players managed to deal with them all before anyone could raise the alarm but they had to move fast.


Good background from Peet. I particularly like the Nualia jealousy angle - I hadn't thought about it that way. Of course this is largely DM fanboy talk - most players will never have the level of insight into these NPC's as described by Peet.

I would add a clarification - the OP asked for methods for turning up the difficulty of Nualia fight. So I provided suggestions. I would not advocate stacking Nualia, Lyrie, Tsuto, Orik and Bruthazmus together initially as that might be too much challenge (though my group handled it - swap Ripnugget for Tsuto (who died) and put both the goblin chief and bugbear at half hp.) But I would encourage DM's to consider how encounters and supposed allies lead to encounters being chained together - nearby monsters being drawn by sounds of combat, alarm and awareness spreading like waves across the complex. The charm of running them in waves is you can always turn the spigot off if the players are having difficulty, but keep 'em coming if they are not getting challenged.


So I just want to give a rundown about how things went in my game:

I lost two players between Fort and Level 1, so I needed to bring a player into an underpowered party in via the prisons (a trainee of Shalelu's who took the initiative to scout the Fort while Shalelu went to town to inform the PCs of goblin movement there).

Our session opened with the PCs meeting Bruthazmus at the bottom of the steps, charging right in with his flail and yelling for Orik who was behind a door nearby. Bruthazmus ate it in combat, but Orik lasted long enough to surrender, but not before giving the players information about everyone else in the dungeon.

The rest of level 1 is empty, with Lyrie, Tsuto, Nualia, and her 3 hounds on level 2. I haven't arranged where exactly they are, but I plan on having Nualia defend the level while she orders Lyrie to get the Portal of Greed open so she can get to Malfeshnekor right now.

It'll be a challenging fight, and if it goes well, I hope that I can have the Portal open mid-fight and have the fight spill through, getting dangerously close to Malfeshnekor's room without opening it.

My reasoning is that I want her to have enough going for her in the fight, both in back-up and encouragement from getting the door opened that it will seem logical when she fights to the death. I don't want her to be clearly overpowered, and she obviously can't make the door due to the tight corridors.


When my players got past the slashing cage trap, they went right instead of left. They had tripped the trap, which resulted in a lot of noise, so Nualia knew they were there.

The party ended up fighting the shadows, and they did pretty well against them, though a few people did take STR damage. I had Nualia attack from behind at the tail end of the Shadow fight.

However, the party Sorcerer's create pit spell really shut her down.

Askren wrote:
...but I plan on having Nualia defend the level while she orders Lyrie to get the Portal of Greed open so she can get to Malfeshnekor right now.

Pretty sure Nualia hasn't found the portal of greed. She knows it's around somewhere, but if she had found it she would have gotten to Malfeshnekor by now.


Based on how my players have handled Thistletop so far, my plan is to have Tsuto, Lyrie, and a wounded Bruthazmus waiting in the first room of the second underground level, with Nualia at the end of the hallway and the Yeth Hound in the Observation Room. When two of those three have gone down, the other is going to retreat back to Nualia, who will have a readied action to cast Obscuring Mist on the room and the hallway. She will then activate the trap, and they will get ready to have the final fight in the Observation Room. I'm increasing the size of the Observation Room to give her room to maneuver the party around so she can possibly make a break for the door.

They also skipped the Catacombs of Wrath, so they're behind where the book recommends they be in terms of XP and WBL.


Peet wrote:

When my players got past the slashing cage trap, they went right instead of left. They had tripped the trap, which resulted in a lot of noise, so Nualia knew they were there.

The party ended up fighting the shadows, and they did pretty well against them, though a few people did take STR damage. I had Nualia attack from behind at the tail end of the Shadow fight.

However, the party Sorcerer's create pit spell really shut her down.

Askren wrote:
...but I plan on having Nualia defend the level while she orders Lyrie to get the Portal of Greed open so she can get to Malfeshnekor right now.
Pretty sure Nualia hasn't found the portal of greed. She knows it's around somewhere, but if she had found it she would have gotten to Malfeshnekor by now.

True. But just imagine what a dramatic scene would ensue: Lyrie and Tsuto show up, shouting excitingly "We have found it!" Upon which Nualia creates a diversion (darkness or GM fiat) or hands over to Lyrie and Tsuto and tries to get to the portal, the PCs are delayed by fighting L&T. They arrive at the portal just to see... what?

Too bad my group is past that part of RotRL.
But with Nualia having escaped I could actually stage a return and a second confrontation on Thistletop... though adding her to Magnimar's scheming and a certain X is tempting, too

Ruyan.


So let me give a run down about how our dungeon went and where we are, so you guys can get an idea of how this is shaping up:

As you know, Bruthazmus ate it and Orik was knocked out and then put unconscious by poison as a way to keep him restrained. The party had agreed not to hurt him, but the poison was sort of extra insurance. It made him mad, but whatever. He's bound and out.

Session 2, after the group finishes exploring the level, they decide to rest for the night since the only spellcaster is long out of healing. I let them rest in the War Room, with Tsuto, Lyrie, Nualia, and three Hounds on the level below. The enemies downstairs are well aware of the intruders, but rather than charger up to meet them, Nualia has her dogs shout and bark from the bottom of the stairs all night, freaking the players out and keeping them from getting good rest, while also getting their imaginations going as to what kind of monsters are waiting for them.

During that time, Nualia and Lyrie use the 12 hours to find the Portal of Greed, my ruling that they had more than enough time to take 20 and figure out how it works. They opened it, and as soon as they did, I had the players suddenly start hearing the raspy whispers of Malfeshnekor too.

Rest over, the party heads down the stairs where they meet Tsuto, Lyrie, and three Hounds in the first room. Initiative up, a hound goes first and uses his howl to make three out of 4 people on the stairs panic and run straight back the way they came for 3 rounds. Tsuto pursued and proceeded to knock out the Oracle, and then the Slayer with his fists, another tough hound cornering the hurt Ranger and Fighter. Things looked very bad as Tsuto went to put down the other two, when the Slayer found himself roused to consciousness as he saw Orik leaning over him with his Curse Moderate Wounds potion bottle. I had rolled in secret to see if I could come up with a way to help them not TPK, and 3 20s in a row was enough for me to have Orik easily escape his bonds. He told the Slayer that they were square now, for sparing his life, and then Orik helped put a hurting blow on Tsuto so the Slayer could finally kill him. Orik then left, the entire party thoroughly convinced that he is the most badass.

They mopped up the rest of the hounds (Lyrie had been up there to heal Tsuto once, but fled downstairs quickly), so now the party is getting ready to assault the second floor where Lyrie and Nualia reside.

Nualia has the portal open, but hasn't figured out how to open the big doors, so I don't know what to do with that yet.

And, I'm going to be looking for a way to bring Orik back sometime in the future, because my guys expressed great interest in meeting him again.

So that's where we are right now.


Askren wrote:
... Rest over, the party heads down the stairs where they meet Tsuto, Lyrie, and three Hounds in the first room. Initiative up, a hound goes first and uses his howl to make three out of 4 people on the stairs panic and run straight back the way they came for 3 rounds. Tsuto pursued and proceeded to knock out the Oracle, and then the Slayer with his fists, another tough hound cornering the hurt Ranger and Fighter. Things looked very bad as Tsuto went to put down the other two, when the Slayer found himself roused to consciousness as he saw Orik leaning over him with his Curse Moderate Wounds potion bottle. I had rolled in secret to see if I could come up with a way to help them not TPK, and 3 20s in a row was enough for me to have Orik easily escape his bonds. He told the Slayer that...

Just a nit: if the yeth hound howls, Tsuto and Lyrie should have to save as well. (Maybe that happened and just wasn't described)

That Bay is a 300 foot spread and should reach pretty far... And only Nualia is immune.


Latrecis wrote:


Just a nit: if the yeth hound howls, Tsuto and Lyrie should have to save as well. (Maybe that happened and just wasn't described)

That Bay is a 300 foot spread and should reach pretty far... And only Nualia is immune.

He said the hounds were baying all night. Pass or fail, Nualia's companions should be immune for 24 hours by the time the party arrives.


Kalshane wrote:
Latrecis wrote:


Just a nit: if the yeth hound howls, Tsuto and Lyrie should have to save as well. (Maybe that happened and just wasn't described)

That Bay is a 300 foot spread and should reach pretty far... And only Nualia is immune.

He said the hounds were baying all night. Pass or fail, Nualia's companions should be immune for 24 hours by the time the party arrives.

Well, the text says the hounds were shouting and barking not necessarily howling but if they were baying or howling all night and Lyrie and Tsuto were immune by the next day then why weren't the pc's just as immune?


Latrecis wrote:

Well, the text says the hounds were shouting and barking not necessarily howling but if they were baying or howling all night and Lyrie and Tsuto were immune by the next day then why weren't the pc's just as immune?

They were on the level above and behind a door. They could hear the hounds, but weren't affected by them. (The AP actually points out that the hounds can be heard throughout the complex when they bay, but walls and doors block the fear effect. I actually goofed this up on my run through, having the mercs alerted but affected by the yeth hounds when the party stumbled into the temple in the middle of the night.)


I'm still not there. So the doors block the effect of the bay. Okay. Then why do it? Especially since it would affect Lyrie and Tsuto? Keep in mind that is not a zero-risk action for Nualia and crew. If any of Nualia's minions are affected, they will flee and very well might flee upstairs and be vulnerable to the pc's or otherwise flee the island. And if you're taking steps to prevent them from being impacted by a bay that otherwise has no benefit (like putting them on another floor or behind doors, etc.) then they would not be immune when the bay is unleashed on the pc's.

In general, the hounds should not be baying in the presence of any of Nualia's mortal allies unless Nualia has written them off/has no further use for them.

Rule mechanics aside, her allies should have morale problems if Nualia deliberately exposes them to the hounds. Magically induced terror should leave some residual concerns about their future and suggest how little Nualia cares about them. Tsuto may be infatuated but Lyrie certainly isn't.


Seems a bit strained from a logical point of view. But then again it's a fear effect. Remove fear is a lvl 1 cleric spell; Nualia could have had the hounds bay, L&T are affected, she casts remove fear and done.
The other action is just to keep the PCs from resting. Nualia and crew have wax ear stoppers and get the benefits of a full night's sleep (with alarm up from L--add to spellbook).

Ruyan.


Honestly, I didn't spend any time thinking about it. My original mistake was assuming the bay was more of a forward-facing cone than a 360-degree burst, but if I wanted to come up with a reason why the enemies might be immune, I probably could. It's just something no one really pays attention to because it doesn't add much time to the story.

I mean, I technically have an entire scene written up for how exactly Nualia and Lyrie went about opening the big Gold Pillar door, but it happened while the PCs were fighting upstairs and no one is ever going to see it, so it really doesn't matter much how they did it. They theoretically had the resources and the time, so it's done. That's pretty much all that matters.

Elaborating on that bit though, is there anything you think Nualia might do once she gets the Portal open? I mean, her goal is 100% freeing Malfeshnekor, and she's barging into this hallway she knows he's hiding, only to find a locked door. She's not going to have much more than a few minutes between the PCs hitting the second floor and them reaching her (assuming they don't linger on the trap hallway and get held up by Lyrie), so I don't think she'll have enough time to actually find the big star key that opens the door.

So all I can think of is that when the PCs get there, she'll sort of just be standing in the hallway kind of exasperated and furious, because she's so close to her goal, but the players are forcing her to kill them instead.

Am I missing anything?


Depends on what you want to achieve...
If you want to lead your PCs to Mal, Nualia should be fought outside its room.

If you want a big all-out fight why not also give her the key (could've been part of the stuff she had gathered in her observatory--on the other hand it is in an adjacent room). Let her join Malfeshnekor and have at it. *shrugs*

As per the AP she cannot free Mal as it is bound to the room via a powerful spell.
If you also want to engineer something have her open the door, the PCs arrive a fight ensues and Mal tries to escape.

Ruyan.

Edit: Ohohohoh, let her transform further towards demon after freeing Mal in front of the PCs for dramatic effect.


To be extra nasty, add the half-succubus template (from Demons Revisited, based in part on the Bestiary half-fiend template). Or another demon type. Too bad the Wrath demons are vrocks (too close to Lamashtu's archenemy, Pazuzu).


Latrecis wrote:
Good background from Peet. ... most players will never have the level of insight into these NPC's as described by Peet.

For the record, if the party captures Orik alive, which seems to happen a lot, then presumably Orik will tell them all about the "dysfunctional family" if the party asks. So there is the opportunity of a window there if the party takes it.


Well, my fight provided a nice challenge, I think. All enemies had max hit points.

My party got down to second underground level, to find Bruthazmus standing in the center of the first room, with Lyrie in a back corner and Tsuto hiding next to the door, waiting to Stunning Fist whoever walked through and Nualia in the hallway, looking imperious. They fought a difficult battle, but were able to kill Bruthazmus and capture Tsuto. Nualia allowed Lyrie to escape using Obscuring Mist. They retreated up the hallway and activated the trap.

After securing Tsuto, they advanced down the hallway while the Rogue disarmed the trap, guessed which room they were hiding in, and the Fighter and Cleric kicked down the door. The Yeth Hound howled, causing the Swashbuckler and Shalelu to run away. The Wizard cast Enlarge Person on the Fighter while he was still in the hallway, inadvertently bottle-necking the hallway and preventing the rest of the party from being able to get to the door. Nualia took full advantage of this and closed with him, further blocking his path to the room. This led to three rounds of Nualia wailing on him while Lyrie blasted him with her Wand of Magic Missile while the Cleric used up the last of his healing and Druid burned several wand of CLW charges trying to keep him up.

Eventually, the wizard dismissed the Enlargement and the Fighter, withdrew, badly hurt. Nualia then backed away from the door and stood next to the Yeth Hound, creating a barrier that would force anyone trying to get by to take an AoO. The Rogue moved in to fight defensively and take a couple hits until the Cleric could replace him. The Druid's tiger went for the Yeth Hound, and enough of the party were finally able to get into the room to start getting Nualia. They took down Nualia, the Yeth Hound, and then wounded Lyrie, who surrendered after being told Tsuto was captured and alive.

All in all, I think it was reasonably challenging, as by the time the fight was over, the Wizard had 1 level 1 spell left (Color Spray), the Cleric was down to 0-level spells and no channels, and the Fighter was sitting at exactly 0 twice. They definitely feel they had a challenge.


My fight went pretty bog-standard, as it was only Lyrie, Nualia, and a dog left on Floor 2.

The players came down, and then proceeded to spend almost 30 minutes on the hallway trap. I wish I was joking about that, 4 people triggered it, 3 got stuck in it. It wasn't until I told one player that he was actually allowed to open the door to the north that he found the lever to turn it off, because if I hadn't done that, they would have spent the entire game searching the hallway.

Nualia went pretty standard, she engaged the Slayer while the rest were stuck behind him in the hallway, and then pulled him back through the open Portal way into the hall-room beyond it so she could kill him while Lyrie kept the rest of the group stuck with the Hound thanks to Grease.

Nualia was near death when she filled the room with Obscuring Mist, and then signaled Lyrie to cast Invisibility on her so she could get out of harm's way, but she just ended up trying to cleave through the injured Fighter to get to the exit, whiffed her attack, and he cut her down.

The party is basically shot for healing at this point, but they did take Lyrie alive, and they did some poking around, but they intend to stay away from the door they identified the magical lock on.

That's where we stopped. I doubt they'll be engaging Malfeshnekor any time soon, but on the off chance they do, he's going to be waiting in Goblin form, which will sort of throw them a little bit. They can all hear him whispering in their head, so none know what to expect behind the door.

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