I have a bit of an odd question. If I have an ability that makes it so I can always act in a surprise round even if I don't notice the enemy (in this case Sohei's Devoted Guardian), can my familiar as well? From what I always understood, or perhaps just always assumed the rules said, my familiar acts when I act. I'm curious due to the interaction of using a Mauler familiar as a mount and the teamwork feat Lookout, which would let me full attack in a surprise round if my familiar counted as aware.
Your familiar may act on your initiative, but unless your ability to always act in the surprise round is somehow shared with your familiar (if that ability was granted by a spell that you had shared with your familiar for example) the determination of surprise is separate.
Your familiar might be surprised when your are not, or vice versa.
I think the rules are different if you are mounted on the creature. The rules for mounts are weird like that.
I see table variation with pets and initiative. I believe officially your pets are supposed to have independent initiative from you. Personally, I play it based on table size. If there are already 6+ players in an initiative order, do you really want your familiar to be muddying things up even more.
I would say unless the ability specifically states it allows others to also act your familiar is unable to act. While your familiar acts when you do, it is still has to have an action to use. The idea behind the familiar acting on the characters turn is to keep the number of turns reasonable. Say for example you had a party of 6 characters all with familiars or animal companions and they all got separate actions it would bog down the game.
To be able to use a teamwork feat both characters must have the teamwork feat. This means obviously your familiar has the lookout feat or it would not matter. If you have the ability to act in the surprise round and both of you have the lookout feat you both can act if either one of you can act. So if your familiar is aware then you can both take full actions. This is part of the feat and has nothing to do with the fact it is your familiar. If your familiar is not aware then both of you can act, but neither of you can full attack.
Yeah as far as the familiar acting in this scenario, I see the points being made against it, but then there's:
I think the rules are different if you are mounted on the creature. The rules for mounts are weird like that.
Perhaps that's the question I should have asked: Can my mount act in a surprise round if I can? The setup is I'm riding the familiar and using a Horsemaster Saddle to grant it all my teamwork feats and I have Lookout. Lookout specifically says that if you and the ally you are using it with could act in the surprise round without needing the feat then you both can full attack, so seeing if my buddy could always act in the surprise round was what I was after.
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So basically your question is..
If both me and my familiar have the lookout feat, and I act in the surprise round, can my familiar also act in the surprise round?
The answer to that is obviously yes, as per the description of lookout.
Completely separate from the lookout feat, if you can act in the surprise round, your mount can act in the surprise round as you are guiding it's actions.
This is different than an Animal Companion (or familiar in this case)--meaning an Animal Companion has to independently be able to act in the surprise round (or have lookout with someone else with lookout also acting in the surprise round). But mounting it supersedes that because you are directly controlling its actions via the mount skill.
My question was more about whether or not the familiar/mount/whatever would be able to act when it otherwise couldn't due to me having an ability that let me; Lookout wasn't meant to be factored into the equation as I only care about it as far as it lets me full attack in a surprise round even if someone jumps me.
If I were using the Ride skill on my mount (let's say just a normal creature, not familiar/animal companion), would it count as being able to act in a surprise round where it was unaware simply because I can and I'm controlling it? If so, then if I granted that mount Lookout, would it therefore qualify to let me full attack?
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My question was more about whether or not the familiar/mount/whatever would be able to act when it otherwise couldn't due to me having an ability that let me; Lookout wasn't meant to be factored into the equation as I only care about it as far as it lets me full attack in a surprise round even if someone jumps me.
If I were using the Ride skill on my mount (let's say just a normal creature, not familiar/animal companion), would it count as being able to act in a surprise round where it was unaware simply because I can and I'm controlling it? If so, then if I granted that mount Lookout, would it therefore qualify to let me full attack?
Here's a simpler version of my post without mentioning lookout.
Here are the basic assumptions
you have the ability to act in the surprise round
cohort does not (cohort can be anything, a mount, an animal companion, a familiar, an NPC, another PC)
You are riding cohort, it gets to act in the surprise round with you because you are directly determining its actions via the ride skill (on an aside, this is why riding PCs is questionable because you are supposed to determine their actions)
You are not on your mount, it only gets to act if you use your action(s) to mount it and then direct it. If you are not mounted on it, then it does not get to act in this surprise round.
Thank you for the insight. That answered all the questions I had and now I got some build revisions to make.
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Mounts are weird, but I would not consider it "able to act" unless it succeeded on its own Perception check. Just because you can control it with your actions doesn't mean it was ready to help you full attack.
"Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. "
It's your turn, you direct it. A horse in real life moves add you direct it, if it's as trained as you are (signified in game by your ride and its combat training), then it's literally effortless. I see nothing in the text that would signify that you can't direct your mount to move (or anything else) during a surprise round.