Natural Attacks clarification


Rules Questions


Okay, so I am so mixed up on the mechanics of Natural Attacks, namely the fact that (I think, based off the context I am hearing) you can make as many Natural Attacks as you have available (1 bite + 2 claws = 3 attacks) per round. Am I understanding this correctly? Also I cannot find the rules on this anywhere, only rules about primary vs secondary, damage, strength bonuses, and such, nothing about how many attacks you get per round. Can somebody direct me to the rulings on this? I'd like to read it myself to fully understand it.

Some other questions regarding natural attacks: Can I combine a natural attack with unarmed attacks? Would that allow me to add another attack like normal or would it impose the regular TWF penalties?

I believe unarmed strike does not count as natural attack, am I correct?


You're right, there is nothing that specifically says the creature makes all natural attacks, but creatures want to survive and will fight to the best of their ability, so when they can make a full-round attack, use everything they have.

This is only not true when the list of attacks has the word "or" in it, such as "do these attacks OR do those attacks". I can't think of any specific example, but I'm sure I have seen a few. Everything else just uses all their attacks when they can.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Giants are a good example, though they use manufactured or natural attacks.


I'm looking at the Toothy alt racial trait for half-orcs and was wondering if being a brawler allowed me to add the bite attack to my full-attack.

Sczarni

Bestiary statblocks are a great resource.

Unarmed Strikes can be combined with natural attacks, so long as none of them utilize the same limb.

The iconic example of this is the 1st level Tengu Monk, who can Claw/Claw/Bite/Kick/Kick (albeit at some extreme penalties).

Sczarni

BigP4nda wrote:
I'm looking at the Toothy alt racial trait for half-orcs and was wondering if being a brawler allowed me to add the bite attack to my full-attack.

Full attack? Yes.

Flurry? No.


Nefreet wrote:
BigP4nda wrote:
I'm looking at the Toothy alt racial trait for half-orcs and was wondering if being a brawler allowed me to add the bite attack to my full-attack.

Full attack? Yes.

Flurry? No.

Yea I just noticed that, is there any feat that can allow me to use a natural weapon in brawler's flurry? You would think Close Weapon Mastery would allow you to, but guess not.


Now I'm mainly focused on Tiefling, but idk if I want to get Maw, Claws, or neither...


BigP4nda wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
BigP4nda wrote:
I'm looking at the Toothy alt racial trait for half-orcs and was wondering if being a brawler allowed me to add the bite attack to my full-attack.

Full attack? Yes.

Flurry? No.

Yea I just noticed that, is there any feat that can allow me to use a natural weapon in brawler's flurry? You would think Close Weapon Mastery would allow you to, but guess not.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/feral-combat-training-combat wrote:


Feral Combat Training (Combat)
Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus with selected natural weapon.

Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.

Special: If you are a monk, you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature.

Brawlers count as monks for feats, I believe.


YES i forgot about that feat. Perfect so let me make sure I understand this right. If i get 2 claws from the maw or claw racial trait from tieflings and get feral combat training I can use brawlers flurry to claw twice then kick twice? Is that how it works?


BigP4nda wrote:
YES i forgot about that feat. Perfect so let me make sure I understand this right. If i get 2 claws from the maw or claw racial trait from tieflings and get feral combat training I can use brawlers flurry to claw twice then kick twice? Is that how it works?

This might help:

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1g1#v5748eaic9ozd wrote:


Feral Combat Training: What does “with” in the Special line for this feat mean for monks making a flurry of blows?
Normally a monk who has natural attacks (such as a lizardfolk monk with claw attacks) cannot use those natural attacks as part of a flurry of blows (Core Rulebook 57). Feral Combat Training allows you to use the selected natural attack as if it were a monk weapon—you can use it as one of your flurry of blows attacks, use it to deploy special attacks that require you to use a monk weapon, apply the effects of the natural weapon (such as a poisonous bite) for each flurry of blows attack, and so on.

The feat does not allow you to make your normal flurry of blows attack sequence plus one or more natural attacks with the natural weapon. In other words, if you can flurry for four attacks per round, with this feat you still only make four attacks per round... but any number of those attacks may be with the selected natural weapon.


Ah. So now my next question:

Feral Combat Training wrote:
as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.

Does this allow me to use my unarmed strike damage for my selected natural attack?

Sczarni

Yup.

That was the exact question that prompted this FAQ to be released.


Okay, that is just amazing...Tiefling Brawler with TWR. Can't wait to play it in PFS

Sczarni

Did you manage to grandfather in a Tiefling from last year?


Nefreet wrote:
Did you manage to grandfather in a Tiefling from last year?

What do you mean?

Sczarni

Tieflings are no longer available for character creation.

They (and Aasimars) were replaced by Nagaji, Wayangs, and Kitsune as of the beginning of Season 6.

Aasimars and Tieflings played before then were grandfathered in.

You should download the new Guide to Organized Play. It's been almost a year since the change was announced.


:( dangit.

Also does a brawler count as having the TWF feats for qualifying for other feats?


Nefreet wrote:

Tieflings are no longer available for character creation.

They (and Aasimars) were replaced by Nagaji, Wayangs, and Kitsune as of the beginning of Season 6.

Aasimars and Tieflings played before then were grandfathered in.

You should download the new Guide to Organized Play. It's been almost a year since the change was announced.

What's the version number?

Sczarni

HERE it is.


BigP4nda wrote:
does a brawler count as having the TWF feats for qualifying for other feats?

I don't see that written anywhere in the Brawler class entry.


Bizzit wrote:
BigP4nda wrote:
does a brawler count as having the TWF feats for qualifying for other feats?
I don't see that written anywhere in the Brawler class entry.

It's here:

Brawler wrote:


Brawler's Flurry (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a brawler can make a brawler's flurry as a full-attack action. When doing so, a brawler has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat when attacking with any combination of unarmed strikes, weapons from the close fighter weapon group, or weapons with the "monk" special feature. She does not need to use two different weapons to use this ability.

A brawler applies her full Strength modifier to her damage rolls for all attacks made with brawler's flurry, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand weapon or a weapon wielded in both hands. A brawler can substitute disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of brawler's flurry. A brawler with natural weapons can't use such weapons as part of brawler's flurry, nor can she make natural weapon attacks in addition to her brawler's flurry attacks.

At 8th level, the brawler gains use of the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat when using brawler's flurry. At 15th level, she gains use of the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat when using brawler's flurry.

Just like monk, they act as if they have TWF (or the improved versions) when flurrying. Which means if are you are using a feat that has that as a prerequisite, it's only available during a flurry.


I may have to take that back. I remember reading that somewhere but now I cannot find it.


You are correct, you only have Two-Weapon Fighting feat when you are using a Flurry.

You can use it as a Pre-Req for feats that you might gain otherwise. At 11th level the Brawler gains Shield Master if they have the Pre-Reqs. So, while using a flurry, the Brawler can use Shield Master but not as part of a "normal" attack, unless he has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat from something else.

I do not know if you can use it for a Pre-Req for feats that you would take "normally" since you don't normally have the feat.

For instance, I don't know if you can take Two-Weapon Defense as a "normal" feat and only benefit from it during a flurry.

Grand Lodge

Nefreet wrote:

Yup.

That was the exact question that prompted this FAQ to be released.

Oh dear. My sohei/storm druid's tentacle attacks are going to get even better than they already are.

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