Ninja / Crossbowman?

[malchyor]

I'm currently working my way through the Evil Campaign to level 20 (Way of the Wicked), and starting out as a Ninja; currently at level 5).

Doing my best to figure out the best way to capitalize on the Ninja/Rogue Sneak Attack DMG, while also noting the absence of a good ranged damage role in our party; and the Precision DMG only comes into play via Flanking or when an opponent loses their Dex Bonus. While there are a number of feats that eventually work into the opponent losing their Dex bonus for the round (Improved and Greater Feint), allowing all additional attacks to use the Precision DMG, there's a 7th level ability of the Crossbowman Fighter subtype that reads:

Improved Deadshot (Ex): At 7th level, when a crossbowman attacks with a crossbow as a readied action, his target is denied its Dexterity bonus to its AC. This ability replaces armor training 2.

When I saw this, it made me stop in my tracks a bit.

Here's the thing though: I've never played up through level 20, and would love some insight on what to expect on levels 12-20, in terms of basic power level and normal DMG output. I'd like to think that when my current Level 5 Ninja adds in the 7 levels of Crossbowman when he hits level 12, he'll be doing a base of 1d3 (Hand Crossbow) + 3d6 (Precision Bonus) of DMG, prior to any magic, Deadly Aim Feat, or other feats, etc?

Is that good for level 12, in terms of damage output? Or, is there a more efficient way of going about this? I haven't really played through the same character to level 20 prior to this, and as long as this may be the only chance I've got at it, i'd like to do it "right".

Thanks in advance for the expert replies.

:)

Thanks in advance for any insight.

[XMorsX]

We are talking about only 1 attack vs all the attacks a regular archer does as a full-round action. Your damage is going to be mediocre. It can become acceptable with the vital strike feat tree, a heavy crossbow and potions of enlarge person, but you will still lag behind.

Probably the best way to deliver reliably ranged sneak attacks is Hero's Display and Shatter Defences with a shortbow, along with greater invisibility at 10th lvl. Just stay with Ninja lvls.

[malchyor]

Wait, where does it state that?

I'd thought a "Ready" action is just a standard action, at least it's only listed as a standard action in the combat section list.

[Taku Ooka Nin]

Rule 1 of Ninja, take the Ninja Trick that gives you invisibility, it is a free sneak attack.
Rule 2 of Ninka, take the Ninja Trick that turns your invisibility into Greater Invisibility, and you have as many sneak attacks as you can throw.

First of all, sneak attack is a trap due to its limitations. You will always be behind the party. Your best bet is to get a continuous item of reduce person, and a ring of greater invisibility asap. Get these and you can just TWF your way to victory by stabbing people to death while invisible.
Just something to note:
A (Use-Activated) Ring of Greater Invisibility costs: 56,000-gp to have custom made for you, if you have Forge Ring then it is only 28,000-gp.

A (continuous) Ring of Greater Invisibility costs: 224,000-gp to have custom made for you, if you have Forge Ring then it is only 112,000-gp.

If you get a continuous version then you essentially have The One Ring and are never visible unless you take it off.

The Caster Level on the Use-Activated version is 7, and Greater Invisibility is 1-round/level, so you use it and are invisible for 7 rounds.
So, 6 rounds of full attacks.

If you have Pounce then this will make you godly since you'll end up eventually being able to get 6d6(weapon)+60d6(sneak attack) in 1 round at level 20.

This is one of the reasons rogues/ninja can be the most damaging class in Pathfinder, but it is very rare for it to happen due to all of a full attack's attacks hitting.
Average damage would be 231 damage, if your weapons have the 4 elemental damage enchants (+1, fire, ice, shocking, acid) then it would be 315 damage instead. To pit it another way, any creature that you hit all of your sneak attacks on at level 20 is probably going to insta-die or will die to your damage the next round if all of your attacks hit.

More for the rogue/ninja than any other class is the importance of pounce.
One alternative is to go for as many natural attacks as possible, buy the amulet of mighty fists, and give all your attacks the elemental enchants so you get more attacks than you are technically entitled to with a straight rogue.
2 + 2(twf) + 2(Itwf) + 2 (Gtwf)
full, -5, -10, -15
VS
6-8 natural attacks all at full bab or at a -5 penalty to hit (-2 if you can take multi-attack)

So your damage is much more powerful if you do not go Xbow.

Short-answer: Xbows are SIMPLE WEAPONS, they are trash. Go at least with Bows or Hand crossbows if you want to be sneaky. Ratfolk are some of the best Sneak attackers when there are two of them due to the Swarming Ability.

[XMorsX]

Ready action is a standard action. With the full-round action I was referring to the typical archer that full-attacks for many attacks per round.

[Cevah]

Lets see what you get:

Ninja 5/Fighter 7 wrote:

Single attack w/o Dex

BAB 10
Damage = Weapon + 3d6
More combat feats

Ninja 12 wrote:

Full attack w/o Dex

BAB 9
Damage = Weapon + 5d6
More Ninja tricks

Basically, a swift action Ninja trick Invisible Blade to get 12 rounds of greater invisibility allowing you sneak attack for every attack is much better than one sneak attack per round.

Downside to the trick is anything that can see invisible.
Upside is TWF becomes much better at connecting, and you can attack reliable at range.

Lastly, rather than use a crossbow, use a composite shortbow for range. You are already proficient, and the range is sufficient for any sneak attack at range.

/cevah