When does ammunition gain the enhancements and special properties of the weapon with wich it is used?

[Oddman80]

When you knock an arrow - is that arrow enchanted by the bow's +1 Flaming property? or is it only once the bow is fired?

the reason i ask has nothing to do with trying to make a bunch of money with nocking arrows and then removing them and selling them as enchanted ammunition...

Rather - I am trying to figure out if the combination of Deadly Dealer and Abundant Ammunition works.

Deadly Dealer says you can enchant a harrow deck like a weapon with 54 pieces of ammunition.
A spell-caster with this feat can enhance a deck of cards as though it were a ranged weapon with 54 pieces of ammunition. This enhancement functions only when used in tandem with this feat, and has no affect on any other way the cards might be used.

Abundant Ammunition says when you take out a non-magic peice of ammunition form a container that has the spell cast on it, the removed ammunition is replenished.

So - if the harrow deck is enchanted, and you cast the abundant ammunition spell on the deck, are the cards in the deck simply masterwork per deadly dealer?

Quote:

...Harrow cards are treated as masterwork weapons when thrown using this feat...

have the cards all been imbued with the deck's special properties before they are removed? thereby not allowing them to be replenished? or is it only when the cards are removed from the deck that they become imbued by the decks enchantments and special properties?

[Oddman80]

bump

[Weirdo]

Deadly Dealer says you enchant the deck as a weapon, not the cards as ammunition. Therefore it should work like a bow. You can use abundant ammunition with a bow, therefore you can use it with a deck in conjunction with Deadly Dealer.

It's odd but I'm pretty sure that's how it works. Personally I think it makes more sense to treat the cards as shuriken.

I also think that the arrows never actually become enchanted, they just take on the bow's properties for purpose of a particular attack - so on firing?

[Diego Rossi]

PRD wrote:

Abundant Ammunition

When cast on a container such as a quiver or a pouch that contains nonmagical ammunition or shuriken (including masterwork ammunition or shuriken), at the start of each round this spell replaces any ammunition taken from the container the round before. The ammunition taken from the container the round before vanishes. If, after casting this spell, you cast a spell that enhances projectiles, such as align weapon or greater magic weapon, on the same container, all projectiles this spell conjures are affected by that spell.

and

PSRD20 wrote:

Deadly Dealer

Your skill with handling a deck and your arcane talents allow you to turn mundane cards into weapons.

Prerequisite(s): Arcane Strike, Sleight of Hand 5 ranks.

Benefit(s): You can throw a card as though it were a dart, with the same damage, range, and other features. You must use the Arcane Strike feat when throwing a card in this way, or else the card lacks the magical force and precision to deal lethal damage. A card is destroyed when thrown in this way.

Harrow cards are treated as masterwork weapons when thrown using this feat, but are still destroyed after they are thrown. A harrow deck can no longer be used as a fortune-telling device after even a single card is thrown.

A spellcaster with this feat can enhance a deck of cards as though it were a ranged weapon with 54 pieces of ammunition. This enhancement functions only when used in tandem with this feat, and has no affect on any other way the cards might be used.

Only a character who possesses this feat can use an enhanced deck of cards; she must still use the Arcane Strike feat to activate the cards' enhancement.

PRD wrote:

Dart Simple Weapons Ranged Weapons

Darts aren't ammunitions, so they will not be affected by Abundant Ammunition.

I would allow it in a home game, but RAW don't work. sorry.

[Diego Rossi]

Weirdo wrote:

Deadly Dealer says you enchant the deck as a weapon, not the cards as ammunition. Therefore it should work like a bow. You can use abundant ammunition with a bow, therefore you can use it with a deck in conjunction with Deadly Dealer.

It's odd but I'm pretty sure that's how it works. Personally I think it makes more sense to treat the cards as shuriken.

I also think that the arrows never actually become enchanted, they just take on the bow's properties for purpose of a particular attack - so on firing?

You use Abundant Ammunition on the arrows, not the bow.

[Zwordsman]

a note.. Darts for most are considerd ammo nowdays. due to one of the excell sheet style listings of it's placement..
So there is an argument for saying it's ammmo.

but in general i think this is one of those "just do whats best for the player because it's vague "

[Byakko]

Hmn? There are darts that are ammunition, but they're for use with blowguns and the like.

Deadly Dealer clearly specifies its the thrown variety of dart, thus isn't ammunition and not a valid target for Abundant Ammunition.

[Byakko]

On seconds thoughts, perhaps it's not entirely clear.

A card is thrown as though it were a dart.

A deck is enchanted as though it had 54 pieces of ammunition (cards).

So it's really not clear how the cards are classified. In fact, the cards may not technically be weapons at all (and thus not valid for Arcane Strike), but simply thrown as though they were.

I believe this will come down to the table's GM, so expect table variation.

Personally, I think it's reasonable to allow them to be treated as ammunition, allow Abundant Ammunition to work, and also allow you to Arcane Strike with them. You could do the same sort of thing with a bow, after all, so sure, have at it.

[Kenji Elindir]

You could also just take a few levels of Cartomancer witch and all your cards would come back.