Somehow I believe that I have somewhere seen a feat that gives a second attack of opportunity (for only one opportunity!), as an iterative with -5 to the roll.
Either my search fu has left me or I only dreamt about it. Or it is not a feat but some mythic ability.
In the back of my (corrupted) mind it says it is a rather recent addition so it could be featured in the ACG or in Mythic Adventures, but I searched both books to no avail.
Please help me get back my sanity, whatever the answer.
A two weapon warrior gets an ability at 13th level to do exactly that. There may be another archetype of another class that does so as well, but that's the only one I can think of.
I have never heard of it, but I would guess it is a mythic feat since I don't have many of those memorized.
so a two weapon warrior with two of those swords would make six attacks?
There used to be a feat chain from 3.5 that included Improved Combat Reflexes and Greater Combat Reflexes that allowed you to make up to two more attacks of opportunity per triggering.
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so a two weapon warrior with two of those swords would make six attacks?it's one of those things that doesn't stack... like the Improved Critical Feat, and a Keen-enchanted weapon.Dusty, six?
Lazarx, why wouldn't they stack?
From the wording of the enchantment.
This special ability can be placed only on melee weapons. A fortuitous weapon grants the wielder more attacks of opportunity. Once per round, when the wielder of a fortuitous weapon hits with an attack of opportunity, he can make a second attack of opportunity with this weapon against that foe at a –5 penalty.
I'm guessing he's talking about the line that says "can make a second attack of opportunity with this weapon". If you've already made a second AoO with your other weapon, then this is no longer a second but a third.
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Once per round, when the wielder of a fortuitous weapon hits with an attack of opportunity, he can make a second attack of opportunity with this weapon against that foe at a –5 penalty.
So, lets say you are a TWFer with a 18 dex and combat reflexes, You have five AoOs per round, and are wielding two fortuitous daggers. You are engaged with two foes, A and B. Target A provokes an AoO, and you attack with your right hand dagger, and hit, allowing you to take a second AoO at -5 vs that foe. Target B also provokes, and while you can take the AoO with your right hand dagger, you know you already used the fortuitous enchantment this round on that dagger, you instead use your left hand dagger. This attack hits, and because you have not used fortuitous on this weapon this round, you can use a second AoO at -5 with this weapon now.
By the strictest reading of that, when it says "second attack of opportunity with this weapon" that makes it look like, if you have two of them, you could use each of them to make a second attack of opportunity.
Also, it doesn't actually say "with this weapon" on the first attack of opportunity, so again by the strictest reading, it looks like when someone with a fortuitous weapon makes any attack of opportunity with any weapon, the fortuitous ability lets him make a second attack of opportunity with his fortuitous weapon at -5.
From that, we get a weird interpretation that a dual-wielder with two of these could have an enemy provoke so he takes one AoO with whichever weapon he wants and then can immediately take two more AoOs at -5 to hit, one with each fortuitous weapon.
That would be silly, but that's how it's worded.
I think the RAI is that you have to make the first AoO "with this weapon" in order to get a second AoO "with this weapon".
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Once per round, when the wielder of a fortuitous weapon hits with an attack of opportunity, he can make a second attack of opportunity with this weapon against that foe at a –5 penalty.
So, lets say you are a TWFer with a 18 dex and combat reflexes, You have five AoOs per round, and are wielding two fortuitous daggers. You are engaged with two foes, A and B. Target A provokes an AoO, and you attack with your right hand dagger, and hit, allowing you to take a second AoO at -5 vs that foe. Target B also provokes, and while you can take the AoO with your right hand dagger, you know you already used the fortuitous enchantment this round on that dagger, you instead use your left hand dagger. This attack hits, and because you have not used fortuitous on this weapon this round, you can use a second AoO at -5 with this weapon now.
Your example and your argument don't match because those are different foes. The only way I see your result is if you instead argue that you can't make a second without first making a first and since you only get one AoO you can't make a first with both hands.
That being said, what if I don't have Combat Reflexes, do I still get the second AoO provided by the enchantment?
Your example and your argument don't match because those are different foes. The only way I see your result is if you instead argue that you can't make a second without first making a first and since you only get one AoO you can't make a first with both hands.
I don't understand this. Imbecatus' example was correct and doesn't require weird wording about no first AoO.
That being said, what if I don't have Combat Reflexes, do I still get the second AoO provided by the enchantment?
Yes.
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Your example and your argument don't match because those are different foes. The only way I see your result is if you instead argue that you can't make a second without first making a first and since you only get one AoO you can't make a first with both hands.I don't understand this. Imbecatus' example was correct and doesn't require weird wording about no first AoO.
That being said, what if I don't have Combat Reflexes, do I still get the second AoO provided by the enchantment?Yes.
Yeah, it's correct regardless of the question and doesn't have much to do with the discussion at hand. He basically said "I can do these two separate things once per round each because they're not related because they came from separate triggers" while the actual question is "can I do these two separate things from the same trigger".
What if I do have Combat Reflexes, does it eat up one of AoOs?
What if I do have Combat Reflexes, does it eat up one of AoOs?
No.
There is nothing here about allowed number of AoOs. If you are allowed to make an AoO, then do so. If you have a fortuitous weapon, then you get an additional free one at -5 that does not count as one of your allowed AoOs.
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Magic. You have two valid rules interpretations:
One: You are using a fortuitous weapon without combat reflexes, and take an AoO. You are then granted an additional AoO by the enchantment which you can take despite not normally being able to take one.
Two: You are using a fortuitous weapon without combat reflexes, and take an AoO. You are then granted an additional AoO by the enchantment which you can not take because you are out of AoOs for the round, making the enchantment useless for most users.
I tend to go with option two, because there are already weapon enchantments that are useless for most users, such as Furious or Inspired.
Magic. You have two valid rules interpretations:
One: You are using a fortuitous weapon without combat reflexes, and take an AoO. You are then granted an additional AoO by the enchantment which you can take despite not normally being able to take one.
Two: You are using a fortuitous weapon without combat reflexes, and take an AoO. You are then granted an additional AoO by the enchantment which you can not take because you are out of AoOs for the round, making the enchantment useless for most users.
I tend to go with option two, because there are already weapon enchantments that are useless for most users, such as Furious or Inspired.
I suppose option 2 is possibly a valid interpretation, but would think the devs would have included something like "You must be able to take more than one AoO and you may not have used all your allowed AoOs this round."
But they didn't.
By not including that restriction, by simply saying "yeah, go ahead and take an AoO" they are giving you a specific benefit of being able to take this AoO. Period. Full stop. No restrictions.
It is, at best, just bad RAI to assume a restriction that isn't stated, just because other similar but unrelated abilities have a restriction.
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Magic. You have two valid rules interpretations:
One: You are using a fortuitous weapon without combat reflexes, and take an AoO. You are then granted an additional AoO by the enchantment which you can take despite not normally being able to take one.
Two: You are using a fortuitous weapon without combat reflexes, and take an AoO. You are then granted an additional AoO by the enchantment which you can not take because you are out of AoOs for the round, making the enchantment useless for most users.
I tend to go with option two, because there are already weapon enchantments that are useless for most users, such as Furious or Inspired.
I suppose option 2 is possibly a valid interpretation, but would think the devs would have included something like "You must be able to take more than one AoO and you may not have used all your allowed AoOs this round."
But they didn't.
By not including that restriction, by simply saying "yeah, go ahead and take an AoO" they are giving you a specific benefit of being able to take this AoO. Period. Full stop. No restrictions.
It is, at best, just bad RAI to assume a restriction that isn't stated, just because other similar but unrelated abilities have a restriction.
Yeah, I'd assume the same thing. That it is actually supposed to be a free AoO (an iterative AoO, if you will), but I don't see that the wording supports that.
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I thought that "you may make an AoO" always implied "if you have AoO to spend." If you're not using the AoO resource pool, why not just say "you may make an attack as a free action?"
Granted, most abilities like this say "the opponent provokes an AoO when..." but similar phrasing is in Snake Fang:
Benefit: While using the Snake Style feat, when an opponent’s attack misses you, you can make an unarmed strike against that opponent as an attack of opportunity. If this attack of opportunity hits, you can spend an immediate action to make another unarmed strike against the same opponent.
Also note that the Greater Trip + Vicious Stomp FAQ (found here) uses "take an AoO" when the feats themselves use "provokes an AoO", suggesting the two phrases are interchangeable.
The Greater Trip feat allows you to take an attack of opportunity against a foe that you trip. The Vicious Stomp feat allows you to take an attack of opportunity against a foe that falls prone adjacent to you. If you have both these feats and trip a foe, do you get to make two attacks of opportunity (assuming that you can)?
Yes, the two triggering acts are similar here but they are different. One occurs when you trip a foe. The other occurs when a foe falls prone. It requires a large number of feats to accomplish, but you can really pile on the attacks with this combination.
It's a situational weapon enhancement that's useful if you have Combat Reflexes or a similar ability that lets you make lots of AoO, but you're not getting to use them because people aren't provoking much - or if you just really want to hammer a particular target (like with Greater Trip + Vicious Stomp). That seems perfectly appropriate for a +1 enhancement.
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I thought that "you may make an AoO" always implied "if you have AoO to spend." If you're not using the AoO resource pool, why not just say "you may make an attack as a free action?"
Granted, most abilities like this say "the opponent provokes an AoO when..." but similar phrasing is in Snake Fang:
Benefit: While using the Snake Style feat, when an opponent’s attack misses you, you can make an unarmed strike against that opponent as an attack of opportunity. If this attack of opportunity hits, you can spend an immediate action to make another unarmed strike against the same opponent.Also note that the Greater Trip + Vicious Stomp FAQ (found here) uses "take an AoO" when the feats themselves use "provokes an AoO", suggesting the two phrases are interchangeable.
It's a situational weapon enhancement that's useful if you have Combat Reflexes or a similar ability that lets you make lots of AoO, but you're not getting to use them because people aren't provoking much - or if you just really want to hammer a particular target (like with Greater Trip + Vicious Stomp). That seems perfectly appropriate for a +1 enhancement.The Greater Trip feat allows you to take an attack of opportunity against a foe that you trip. The Vicious Stomp feat allows you to take an attack of opportunity against a foe that falls prone adjacent to you. If you have both these feats and trip a foe, do you get to make two attacks of opportunity (assuming that you can)?
Yes, the two triggering acts are similar here but they are different. One occurs when you trip a foe. The other occurs when a foe falls prone. It requires a large number of feats to accomplish, but you can really pile on the attacks with this combination.
I'm highly considering it as my 5000g Fortuitous Amulet of Mighty Fists (skipping the +1 enhancement bonus) for my worg. At level 5 he just got Vicious Stomp but between that, Broken Wing Gambit, Outflank, and Paired Opportunists I'm not sure if I've got any AoOs to spare. So I'll have to test it out a bit to see if I still need extra AoOs.
It's not 100% clear if extra AoO granted by a Fortuitous weapon is free or if it consumes one of your AoO, though it could be clear if the wording was better.
I'm inclined to agree with Weirdo. If it were free, it would most likely say "free attack" but since it says " a second (extra) AoO" it most likely consumes another AoO "charge", though I did not search the forums for any official clarification on the Fortuitous weapon property.
It is also not clear if someone who's TWFing with 2 Fortuitous weapons would get to make 2 extra AoO, one with each weapon. There's nothing saying you wouldn't get the 2 extra attacks, but Haste is the spell used to craft the enchantment, and we know haste only woks one per round, even when TWFing.
Well, since I'm the one implying this, I personaly would allow 2 fortuitous weapons, since I think it's a deserved benefit to those fighting with two weapons instead of a 2h weapon.
By RAW, the Two-Weapon Warrior's 13th level Equal Opportunity(Ex) ability would stack with a Fortuitous weapon, one are extra free attacks with your off-hand weapons and the other is a extra AoO in the same round, for the same action, with the same weapon, they are two very different things.
The problem is, if you combo Equal Opportunity + Fortitous Weapons + Improved Trip + Viscious Stomp you get yourself something broken that will eventually (maybe years) be corrected by the Devs.
I like Equal Opportunity, I think it's fair compared to an AoO of a 2h Barbarian build who takes that for granted, but I would limit the extra AoO for the same action to +1 per attack. This way a TWFigher with Equal Opportunity + Fortitous Weapons + Improved Trip + Viscious Stomp would get only 2 AoO with each weapon (and a 2h Barbarian with a Fortuitous weapon + Improved Trip + Viscious Stomp would get only 2 AoO.)
Is this still strong? Yes it is. Is it FUBAR? No, I don't thik so. What do you do? Don't provoke an AoO from these guys.
BTW, a TWFighter with 2 Fortuitous weapons would expend 3 of his AoO to do 4 attacks, 1 to trigger his regular 2 attacks with Equal Opportuntiy, and another 2 to fuel his 2 Fortuitous weapons.
Also, he would only be able to use his Fortuitous weapons combo on one enemy per round.
Finally, the description of Equal Opportunist seems wrong:
Equal Opportunist(Ex): At 13th level, when a two-weapon warrior makes an attack of opportunity, he may attack once with both his primary and secondary weapons. The penalties for attacking with two weapons apply normally.
Instead of "primary and secondary weapons", the author probably meant "main hand and off-hand weapons".
so a two weapon warrior with two of those swords would make six attacks?it's one of those things that doesn't stack... like the Improved Critical Feat, and a Keen-enchanted weapon.Dusty, six?
Lazarx, why wouldn't they stack?
From the wording of the enchantment.
This special ability can be placed only on melee weapons. A fortuitous weapon grants the wielder more attacks of opportunity. Once per round, when the wielder of a fortuitous weapon hits with an attack of opportunity, he can make a second attack of opportunity with this weapon against that foe at a –5 penalty.I'm guessing he's talking about the line that says "can make a second attack of opportunity with this weapon". If you've already made a second AoO with your other weapon, then this is no longer a second but a third.
Well I meant the fighter gains the ability to strike with his offhand during an aoo, so his fits aoo while dual wielding these weapons would hit with both, grabting two more aoos, meaning he'd be hitting with his off hand each time as well, granting six attacks
