Emerald Spire Level 3 Question

[Sebastian Hirsch]

This may be a really obvious question, but I would rather ask, than assume an be wrong.

I am currently preparing this adventure, and a large number of the enemies have poison listed under their combat gear, and in their attack description.

My question is, do I assume, that they have used at least one application of their listed poison on at least one piece of ammunition ?

Since applying poison is a standard action in combat, and most if not all of the enemies on that level use ranged weapons, shouldn't they have applied it to their ammunition before combat?
As I player I would do so, but I am not sure if this is intentional to weaken the encounter (not unlike some sub standard tactics for negative energy channeling clerics).

Example stat block wrote:

Ranged mwk light crossbow +5 (1d8/19–20 plus poison)
Special Attacks sneak attack +1d6
TACTICS
Morale The outlaws retreat only if the PCs enter the guard post.
STATISTICS
Str 14, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8
Base Atk +1; CMB +3; CMD 16
Feats Improved Initiative, Point-Blank Shot, Weapon Finesse
Skills Acrobatics +8, Appraise +5, Climb +7, Disable Device +8,
Perception +6, Stealth +8
Languages Common
SQ trapfinding +1
Combat Gear potion of cure light wounds, Small centipede
poison (4); Other Gear leather armor, dagger, mwk light
crossbow with 20 bolts, short sword

It is worth mentioning, that unless the PCs bring light into this dungeon (there is dim light almost everywhere) nobody is using sneak attack.

This is my first time running something like this for PFS, and I really don't want to break the "run as written" rule.

[Tsriel]

Given the nature of the level, I think its safe to assume that they would prepare their first shot with poison.

Spoiler:

Especially considering that they have an alchemist on staff who is actively brewing it

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:

It is worth mentioning, that unless the PCs bring light into this dungeon (there is dim light almost everywhere) nobody is using sneak attack

Not entirely true. If the NPCs act first in combat and they target a PC within 30ft with a ranged attack, that PC is flatfooted therefore sneak attack applies. If that PC gets flanked by a rogue, sneak attack applies there too. The NPCs definitely want these things to occur.

That level has a couple nasty bits to it and can kill surprised PCs. Definitely had to reign it in a little when I ran it, but it was alot of fun.

[Sebastian Hirsch]

Tsriel wrote:

Given the nature of the level, I think its safe to assume that they would prepare their first shot with poison.

** spoiler omitted **

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:

It is worth mentioning, that unless the PCs bring light into this dungeon (there is dim light almost everywhere) nobody is using sneak attack

Not entirely true. If the NPCs act first in combat and they target a PC within 30ft with a ranged attack, that PC is flatfooted therefore sneak attack applies. If that PC gets flanked by a rogue, sneak attack applies there too. The NPCs definitely want these things to occur.

That level has a couple nasty bits to it and can kill surprised PCs. Definitely had to reign it in a little when I ran it, but it was alot of fun.

Thanks for the answer, I think unless I have to be a tryhard (5+ person group) this is how I will deal with this situation.

Regarding the sneak attack situation, and the character from your spoiler post (his tactics do mention sneak attack), this is my problem:

Level 3 sidebar wrote:

Illumination: Small oil lamps illuminate all the corridors

(including areas C1, C2, and C13) and occupied rooms. They
are not very bright, providing only dim light.

and

Vision and Light wrote:

n an area of dim light, a character can see somewhat. Creatures within this area have concealment (20% miss chance in combat) from those without darkvision or the ability to see in darkness. A creature within an area of dim light can make a Stealth check to conceal itself. Areas of dim light include outside at night with a moon in the sky, bright starlight, and the area between 20 and 40 feet from a torch.

I think the light rules aren't often enforced, but if the group brings light with them (quite likely) it actually puts them at a disadvantage.

So far (currently preparing levels 1-10 for a convention) the first 3 levels don't really have challenging combat encounters, but the traps on level 2 are pretty damn deadly.

[schattenstern]

Quote:

I think the light rules aren't often enforced, but if the group brings light with them (quite likely) it actually puts them at a disadvantage.

That would not be the first time -> see our runt to the sewers were we got into a disatvatageful situation because of our lights.

Quote:

So far (currently preparing levels 1-10 for a convention) the first 3 levels don't really have challenging combat encounters, but the traps on level 2 are pretty damn deadly.

I do not think we get to level 10 but there are some encounters on level 1-3 that can turn deadly if you do not have a crtmashine like our level 1 run or perception to the roof like our level 2. And remember we always had characters above the minimum Level required for the dungeon. In level 1 we had you as a wand dispenser what is not always expected in a level 1-2 and in the second level you were all level 2 what is expected if you rune the spire pure but it must also compensate for having a group ove level 1 chars and in my opinion this is the area where having one level more or not can make a huge difference.

[Tsriel]

I am often guilty of overlooking the light rules mainly because I'm too busy dealing with other factors. I suspect I'm not the only one that has these kinds of issues when GMing.

If you are a GM that likes to actively track light, then knowing who has what light sources out makes a difference. Ranged increment rules will also come into play too. In the case of throwing vials, you are usually looking at a 10' increment, but it targets touch AC, so you probably could get away with a penalty or two.

Anywho, I don't know the group that you're running. In my case, I had a team of very experienced players (mix of PFS and non-PFS) and knew that I could test their limits without worrying about whether or not they could handle it. For example:

Example 1:

Likely the very first combat your party will deal with, the barricaded door with the murder holes in the wall. I got a lucky crit against the party druid, which almost killed him, to start the fight. The party had to backtrack and regroup at the stair to formulate a plan, which ultimately worked. However, that didn't stop the rest of the level from going on high alert.

Example 2:

That alchemist mentioned earlier. His tactics are devastating if the party rolls poorly. I stunlocked a couple players out of the combat with him, one being their big hitter. (Stunned is a nasty debuff.) Fortunately for the players, they still had the damage to overcome it, just not by much. That was a long fight.

This was with a 5 person team. Your results will likely vary as well as tailoring the challenge to a level better suited towards your players.

[Calenor]

Just recently run Lvl 3 on a Convention (Adventurcon Hamburg ;))

we had:
Dwarf Ranger/Rogue 3/1
Tengu Rogue/Druid 2/1
Tengu Monk 3
Human Fighter (2Handed) 3
Human Shaman Lvl 3

It worked quite well and the fights where fun but not that challenging, except the Monster under the Bed, as it ate(engulfed) the Tengu Rogue, he survived with -7, next attack would have been the engulf damage,...

The Alchemist Pet endured several Rounds, sending the same Tengu and his Pet to sleep. ;)

--------------------------

The cellars are easy mode, when u have a Dwarf Rogue, spotting all Traps.:)

--------------------------

The Tower ruins have several points where u can get into trouble.
The enviroment can hinder the PC a lot(Light/rubble) and Horsechopper Crits are no fun, double against Humans.
And when the alerted boss defends the door(and the PC fail to break it) he kills them easily.

[Sebastian Hirsch]

So far, after playing level 1 and 2, and preparing 1-3 the first levels seem a bit dependent on your group composition. 4 humans will have significantly more problems than a number of other groups.

I am quite curious, how the convention group will deal with the arrow slits on level 1 and 3, and of course whether or not they have someone with decent perception.

[Calenor]

In my case, the group took the Secret door route,geared up with Masks and took every Defense Position from behind. :)

[tchrman35]

Question: why do the echo woods scouts (level 3) have +2 damage on the sword and +3 on the dagger? I'm confused.

[Ring_of_Gyges]

tchrman35 wrote:

Question: why do the echo woods scouts (level 3) have +2 damage on the sword and +3 on the dagger? I'm confused.

Looks like an error to me. They've got non-magical weapons, a 14 Strength, and no feats that add to melee damage, so they should have +2 with each.

[Sebastian Hirsch]

I ran, and played this level prette recently, I don't think that the level took longer than 30 rounds.

----

According to my PDF page 42, the scouts have +1 damage on sword and dagger rolls (fitting for STR 13), the Echo Wood Outlaws however have that mistake, seems like a typo.