Ok so any of us who have read Mythic Adventures knows that there is a section for players to create their own artifacts by taking a series of three particular path abilities. Personally though, I was highly unimpressed with this section. It felt really under detailed to me, and for something that I was initially so excited about reading, it really fell flat. So Im wondering, how many of you think it would be broken to allow players who wish to utilize this ability, to instead create some of the premade artifacts from Mythic. Essentially break down the artifacts abilities into the 10 legendary abilities that are gained through the use of the path abilities, put them in order of power least to greatest, and go from there. I don't know if I am the only one who feels this way about this topic but I would be really interested to hear opinions.
The only reason to use this rule is if you're playing a mythic campaign. The rule is unworkable without that assumption.
The artifacts created using these rules are not the capital A artifacts, such as Babba Yaga's Hut, but they can be broken enough as they are.
If you are thinking of running a mythic campaign and looking for powers to ban, this would be around the top of your list.
What you definitely don't want for very good reason, are rules for making items on the scale of the Hut.
We are in fact running a Mythic Campaign. Not looking to try to work this into a normal campaign, and to tell you the truth, based on the current state of the artifact creation rules available to Mythic players, I'm not impressed by a long shot. Especially considering how many path abilities it takes. Idk, maybe it should be the way that it is, but I found the whole section highly disappointing and uninspiring.
Emparawr wrote: We are in fact running a Mythic Campaign. Not looking to try to work this into a normal campaign, and to tell you the truth, based on the current state of the artifact creation rules available to Mythic players, I'm not impressed by a long shot. Especially considering how many path abilities it takes. Idk, maybe it should be the way that it is, but I found the whole section highly disappointing and uninspiring. You might see it as uninspiring on the surface, but the weapons and items you can make from it can be seriously crack monkey powerful. If the power were any better, it'd be a must have.
Ok so barring the two abilities that are damn powerful but only for weapons, Foe Biting and Unstoppable Strike, what is it that you see out of these abilities that is supposed to be so good? If you go invisible alot undetectable is useful but there are other ways to get that. Most of the abilities are just about making it so other people can use your item, or cant use your item, or you can teleport it to you etc etc. Very few of them ever actually give it any real abilities of any use to anyone but a fighter who wants a much stronger weapon. Even the SLAs are pretty limited in their scope of usefulness. None of it really screams mythic to me.
Emparawr wrote: Ok so barring the two abilities that are damn powerful but only for weapons, Foe Biting and Unstoppable Strike, what is it that you see out of these abilities that is supposed to be so good? If you go invisible alot undetectable is useful but there are other ways to get that. Most of the abilities are just about making it so other people can use your item, or cant use your item, or you can teleport it to you etc etc. Very few of them ever actually give it any real abilities of any use to anyone but a fighter who wants a much stronger weapon. Even the SLAs are pretty limited in their scope of usefulness. None of it really screams mythic to me. If you think of legendary items, what do you think of the most? Chances are, it's a weapon. So there are more than enough goodies for casters, pooh-poohing something because it's "only great for fighters" is a bit tacky at best.
Actually no. Most of the legendary items I think of are not weapons. They tend to actually be the least interesting even though I most often play martial classes. So whats wrong with wanting to see some interesting variety in artifact creation? I have been roleplaying for over a decade and finally there are rules for a character being able to make their own custom legendary items, and this is the best that they can come up with? Also instead of just slinging insults, how about you try actually making a point about something. If I wanted to listen to a troll sling I could go to any board for that. I came here to get some actual input. So do you have any actual advice, useful information, or real points to make?
Emparawr wrote: Actually no. Most of the legendary items I think of are not weapons. They tend to actually be the least interesting even though I most often play martial classes. So whats wrong with wanting to see some interesting variety in artifact creation? I Absolutely nothing.... that's where you the DM get involved. There really should not be a standardized process for artifact creation, which should be more of a story process a mini-campaign or campaign in it's own right.. True artifacts by definition are items that don't fit into a standardized rule process.
Moorcock's heroes for example, didn't create the artifacts they are famous for, they either quested for them or those artifacts intercepted their lives as part of story process.
I am the DM. Well as far as character creation is concerned at least. The DM who is going to be running the campaign itself week to week put me in charge of character creation and balance for all of our players since I am the one with the most knowledge of the game itself and its mechanics. Either way, looks like I will just figure something out on my own. If nothing else I guess he could just take different path abilities and normal magic items and maybe later in the campaign we'll work an artifact for his build in there somewhere that doesnt follow the standard creation rules so we can make something that will be of some use to his build. He's an all out brainjacker and illusionist who believes that the use of physical weapons is beneath him. After all, why learn to be the greatest at swinging a sword when you can just convince your enemy to fight for you instead. The particular artifact I was looking at for him is the Tarnhelm from Mythic Adventures because all its abilities fit him perfectly. Especially the shapechanging and disguise. Although the Dragon transformation less so than the others because it is meant to be a combat effect but it could be nice thematically when the group is fighting whole armies in the epic levels.
Huh. If I were going to do this, I'd dig through the abilities that seem thematic, determine if it was strong enough to merit a limitation to minor/major artifact, then let the players choose among a narrower selection of additional abilities.
-- depending on how much effort you want to devote to this, you could break out a scaling effect so the ability gets better and better until you fully unlock the Major Artifact ability at Tier 6-10.
I'd hesitate before just giving them a slowly upgrading artifact as a response to them choosing Legendary Item... a lot of people prefer customization to suit their wants, even if it comes from a less powerful list. Also, there are rules for unlocking legendary item abilities as you gain tiers that already exist (they wouldn't even need the ability for that)
I don't think it's broken, or at least no more than some other mythic options.
YMMV
I may be missing something, but I can't find anywhere in the Mythic Adventures where it gives rules for making Artifacts. Like it dose for magic items in the CRB.
From what I understand a Legendary item is not made by the the character, it is bestowed it's abilities from advancing in Mythic Tiers.
I believe that is actually what the OP intended.
I kind of mix things. I mean, let's face it, any item you get when you first go mythic is proooobably going to be obsolete by endgame (unless you go mythic really late, anyway). I'm of the opinion that a legendary item, as a character's most iconic item, should be worth carrying across an entire campaign.
What I usually do is tweak an existing item or create a new one, designing something that can scale throughout the campaign and always be relevant for the character. This provides a degree of power outside of the legendary abilities - which I think are a bit lackluster, since there really aren't too many choices - and helps players feel like they have something impressive without totally breaking down the system.
It's definitely something I approach on a case-by-case basis, though, and I'm not sure how well that would translate to specific rules for others to use.
GM Rednal wrote: I kind of mix things. I mean, let's face it, any item you get when you first go mythic is proooobably going to be obsolete by endgame (unless you go mythic really late, anyway). I'm of the opinion that a legendary item, as a character's most iconic item, should be worth carrying across an entire campaign. I fix that with scaling magic items.
Otherwise, I share your sentiment, OP. If you do figure something out that satisfies you, please share it with the community, as there are others who would likely be interested.
I don't have access to the rules right now, and Magic item creation has never been something I bothered with in Pathfinder all that much so I don't know the rules all that well to begin with. That said this is a worthwhile discussion to be had, and given more time I'll see if I can cobble together some ideas to work with.
I can say that the most important part of an Artifact is not the powers it has, how balanced it is, or really anything mechanical about it. The most important part of an Artifact is its story, where it came from what it has done, etc. Your Artifact is going to grow out of the narrative built for it, and you'll actually have to build that narrative to make your artifact.
It might be a sword who's legend grows with each battle and in turn its own power grows with the legend. It it might be something you want to come into the world at full power, in this case you will need to turn the process of creating the Artifact into legend itself.
It is also from this story that you will determine what kind of powers best fit your Artifact.
@137ben: That's definitely an option. ^^ It's not quite right for every character - for example, some of my scaling items are magic staves, which gain maximum charges based on character level (specifically, character level x2.5, rounded down, for a maximum of fifty charges at level 20) and new spells based on the level of magic the user can cast (blocking early access to higher-level spells) - but I agree that particular supplement is at least worth a look.
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