I am trying to find some reason for being a mystic theurge. I think the key is to find some sort of odd combination between divine and arcane casting, but for the life of me, I can't find it.
It's different than arcane trickster and eldritch knight. The first one is a rogue who trade 5 BAB and 3d6 sneak attack dice for better class features and 9th level wizard spells. The second is a wizard who trades 2 levels of spell progression for more BAB and proficiencies in armor and weapons.
Theurge though, seems like a waste to focus on either the divine or arcane portion. You can be a wizard who is 3 levels behind for 13 cleric spellcasting levels or a cleric who is 3 levels behind for 13 wizard spellcasting levels or you can be a theurge that combos both but is eventually 5 caster levels behind.
I just don't see divine casting as all that different from arcane casting to justify the 3 level dip to add the abilities.
So how does one make a "Theurge" mystic theurge work? Someone who does end up with only 8th level spells in two classes.
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You make it work by hiding the recent SLA FAQ from your GM.
You make it work by hiding the recent SLA FAQ from your GM.
Yeah but you would have never been able to do the SLA trick without religious observance of FAQs.
At higher levels, being able to cast contingency with heal is pretty nice. You can always choose the class with the lower-level spell slot (e.g. animate dead, bestow/remove curse, plane shift). You can get a lot of mileage out of lesser metamagic rods, which are so much cheaper than regular or greater, especially extend and quicken.
Mystic Theurge is about having the best answer to any problem, not just an answer.
There's a way for the Theurge to pick up full effective casting in one class, or scrape into dual 9th level spells, using only Paizo material (and no FAQs either!)... all you need is Inner Sea Magic (don't know if it is PFS legal, as I haven't looked into that sort of thing)
Esoteric Training, pg 22 ISM.
It's an RP benefit for being part of a magic guild that grants you +3/+1 effective caster level (including actual spellcasting -- its specific about this)
So you could go 4 X/ 6 Y/ 10 MT = 17 effective X + 17 effective Y
Or 1 X/ 9 Y/ 10 MT = 14 effective X + 20 effective Y.
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Even without that, I think Theurges are still viable in play. They may not be as terrifying as straight casters in all situations, but they aren't pushovers.
I wouldn't expect the same gameplay experience as you would otherwise look for in a straight caster.
Esoteric Training, pg 22 ISM.
Do you have a PFSRD link for that?
Having twice as many spells as the straight caster can come in handy for numerous reasons. Something like a samsaran(?) who can tweak a spell list even more gets a ton of mileage out of it.
Resource management is an "issue" when not doing the 15 min adventuring day, MTs have more resources. You don't play one for god like power, you play one for having a spell for every occasion. The main issue in organized play is they don't go late game, when an MT comes into its own. It is a late bloomer I guess you'd say.
Hm... I can't find the rules on magic schools and guild on either PFSRD or Archives of Nethys. Here's the rules text for Esoteric Training.
Eclectic Training (5 Fame): Guilds often require members to master and train in different subjects. When your Fame score in a guild reaches 5, choose one spellcasting class you have at least 1 level in—you increase your effective caster level in that class (including the number of spells you know and can cast per day) by +1, to a maximum caster level equal to your total Hit Dice. Single-classed spellcasters should still pick a class to which this bonus applies, since this bonus is retroactive.
Esoteric Training (35 Fame): The bonus to caster level you gain from Eclectic Training increases to +3 (but is still limited by your total Hit Dice). You may select a second spellcasting class to gain a +1 bonus to effective caster level.
It's worth noting that 35 Fame is a non-negligible amount and would take a fair amount of time to earn.
Esoteric Training, pg 22 ISM.Do you have a PFSRD link for that?
There isn't one.
Google'd:
http://webpages.charter.net/tedsarah/Pathfinder/srd/additionalRules/MagicSc hools.htm
Esoteric Training, pg 22 ISM.Do you have a PFSRD link for that?There isn't one.
Google'd:
http://webpages.charter.net/tedsarah/Pathfinder/srd/additionalRules/MagicSc hools.htm
Yeah, 35 Fame can be pretty significant, especially as it is metered out by the GM. The book recommends around 5 opportunities to earn Fame for every level (in a sidebar), so I wouldn't expect earlier than level 7, but going much later than level 14 would be pretty stingy if the GM is bothering to allow it at all (that is an example only, intended academically)
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Here's a whacky Mystic Theurge I've been playing. Ben uses unconventional tactics. He started out as early-entry, but I changed him to non-early entry after the FAQ. Still very viable. The martial ability will get him through low levels, and at high levels he'll be a more normal Theurge. He died and was revived recently, so is still flat broke.
I use it for NPCs never for PCs. For example a Nymph with sorceress levels makes a wonderful Mystic Theurge.