Can a wizard with a bonded staff use metamagic rods?


Rules Questions


PRD wrote:
Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon. These objects are always masterwork quality. Weapons acquired at 1st level are not made of any special material. If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be held in one hand. If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell's level. If the object is a ring or amulet, it occupies the ring or neck slot accordingly.
PRD wrote:
Somatic (S): A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component.

So if one hand is required to hold your staff, and your other hand is required to cast your spell, are you just screwed unless you cast a still spell or come up with a third hand?

Sovereign Court

The wizard is not so much screwed as experiencing the downside that should come with the advantages of having a staff (or other hand-held item) as a bonded item.

The wizard could instead have taken a ring or amulet, but those are choices that have different drawbacks.

If the choice of staff has no drawbacks, it's not a fairly balanced choice.


deusvult wrote:

The wizard is not so much screwed as experiencing the downside that should come with the advantages of having a staff (or other hand-held item) as a bonded item.

The wizard could instead have taken a ring or amulet, but those are choices that have different drawbacks.

If the choice of staff has no drawbacks, it's not a fairly balanced choice.

Curious, what drawbacks would there be to taking a ring or amulet as a bonded item?

Liberty's Edge

Metamagic rods do not have to be held in order to use their ability.

CRB wrote:
Possession of a metamagic rod does not confer the associated feat on the owner, only the ability to use the given feat a specified number of times per day.

If the rod is in your backpack, it is in your possession.

Sovereign Court

Xexyz wrote:
Curious, what drawbacks would there be to taking a ring or amulet as a bonded item?

Early on: eats a slot that can't be filled by something else.

Later on: when you've got the wealth/power to upgrade the item, having a staff on the cheap is way more powerful (in the hands of a wizard) than what ring or neck slots tend to do.

baradakas wrote:
Metamagic rods do not have to be held in order to use their ability.
CRB wrote:
Possession of a metamagic rod does not confer the associated feat on the owner, only the ability to use the given feat a specified number of times per day.
If the rod is in your backpack, it is in your possession.

You made a DC 30 on your acrobatics to make that leap! Consider:

CRB, Rods wrote:
Activation: Details relating to rod use vary from item to item. Unless noted otherwise, you must be holding a rod to use its abilities. See the individual descriptions for specifics.


Yes, if you want an arcane bond that doesn't eat up a magic item slot, the price is that you may not have enough hands to juggle all the other slotless items you might want to use simultaneously.

Invest in Still Spell.

Invest in a third arm, a tail, or some other way to hold a staff, a rod, and still have a free hand.

Maybe your GM would let you "hold" your staff with your elbow. You know, the bottom of the staff is on the ground and it's basically just propped there, leaning against you, with your elbow bent around it and your rod in that same hand while you cast with your somatic component using your other hand. A generous GM might allow this.

Or take a lesson from Sigourney Weaver at the end of Aliens - she strapped two guns together, a machine gun and a flame thrower, actually, taped together with what looked like electrical tape, so that she could carry them both at the same time. Maybe you could "tape" your metamagic rod to your staff and carry them both in the same hand - as long as you wrapped your fingers around the staff and the rod at the same time, I would say this counts as holding both. Although, you probably could't wield the staff as a weapon this way. As a GM, I might even allow this, so maybe yours would too.

Or just deal with the disadvantage of having a slotless arcane bond.

Liberty's Edge

Sorry I missed that general rule about rod activation. I did search around, but didn't go into the activation section for the answer.


No big deal, you're a wizard. Extend a Monstrous Physique I to become a Witchwyrd and gain 4 arms, or Monstrous Physique II into a Calikang which has 6 arms.

Hold all the rods you want, and beat your enemies to death with your two handed staff while you're at it!

The Exchange

Depending on your Int, level, gear, feats, and the level of the spell it might be possible to cast without holding your staff. It is a DC 20+spell level concentration check. So if you are 10th level with a 26 Int (+8) trying to cast a 3rd level spell you only need a 5 or higher. So an 80% chance to succeed.

Be careful with this as it is NOT a check to cast defensively. So while Uncanny Concentration would apply Combat Casting does not. Similarly a Robe of Careful Casting would give you +2 but Gloves of Elvenkind would not help.


Arcane Duelist Bards can add somatic components using the hand holding their bonded weapon. As far as I know, they are the only class that gets that ability.


Tie the rod to your staff so that you just have to slide your hand down slightly.


Trogdar wrote:
Tie the rod to your staff so that you just have to slide your hand down slightly.

Sigourney Weaver style...

Grand Lodge

Isn't that what sovereign glue is for? To make two separate items into a single item?


kinevon wrote:
Isn't that what sovereign glue is for? To make two separate items into a single item?

Honestly I think that the is exactly what sovereign glue would be used for. Gotta try to get this past my GM...


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Vaite Belleran wrote:
Gotta try to get this past my GM...

Don't you mean "Gotta ask my GM..."?

The former seriously alludes to an intentional act of deception which is, you know, wrong.


Rods must be held to be used.
Bonded items must be wielded to cast a spell.
Staves need two hands to be wielded.

The last sentence assumes a standard two-handed weapon staff.
The Hanbo is an eastern light melee weapon that is a staff.

Hanbo wrote:
The hanbo is a staff less than a yard long, often carved to look like a walking stick.

Using a Hanbo & Rod is easy.

Using a Monkey Belt is another option.

/cevah

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