Reach for the Skies: A Reach Bullrush build?

[Velxir]

Hi All,

So I have had an idea in my head for a bit, and wanted to get your input on it. The basic gist is of this build is to use the Wind Subdomain to bullrush several enemies, and then using Greater Bullrush in conjunction with a reach weapon and/or being enlarged to get multiple Attacks of Opportunity off on them.

My current idea is either a druid with the air domain, who shapeshifts and then can use the higher STR and size increases to help boost CMB, or use a cleric with the plant domain to get larger for a larger reach.

My two biggest current concerns are:
A) Stat Allocation: I will be fairly MAD since I want a high Wis for the ability, STR for Power attack, and DEX for extra AoOs

B) Feats. I am looking at Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Imp Bull Rush, Greater Bull rush, and if I want to try and be less MAD, perhaps the channel smite into guided hand feats.

I am thinking of using either a Dwarf for the alternate race trait that grants a +2 bonus to bullrush, or Human to help with the feats.

So what do you all think, how would you build this? I know its probably not optimal but I think it would be fun. If I go druid I could also transform into an earth elemental, glide under the earth, and bullrush someone up into the air like a geyser.

[BadBird]

Well... Greater Bull Rush doesn't give you AoO's, only your allies. Also, one bullrush will only provoke one AoO.

A level 8 Barbarian can get Unexpected Strike to make the AoO, but moving up to someone with a Barbarian just to try to bullrush them for one AoO seems rather pointless.

[Velxir]

You don't count as your own ally for the purposes of greater bullrush?

EDIT: Just read it again. I assumed it worked like greater trip, but nope. Welp. There goes my idea :P

[BadBird]

A Barbarian 8 can use the Unexpected Strike feat to bag a free AoO off of certain movement, so with some rage cycling and tricky footwork you could pull some interesting moves that way. Using the Wind subdomain is an awfully weak way to go about it though compared to just bullrushing in the first place.

[Velxir]

Well the cool thing about the wind subdomain is it hits any creature in a 30ft line with their own bullrush, at WIS + CL for the maneuver. So you can have strong casting power and a nice way to bullrush multiple foes.

I was just trying to take further advantage of that as a caster with a reach weapon, which still may be possible if they are dumb and try to run back in after I push them back.

Now that I think about it, a Conductive reach weapon with this ability would be pretty hilarious. Enemy runs in, you use an attack of opportunity, knock them back with a bullrush through conductive powers

Pull off this move: http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1369/33/1369337876949.gif

[BadBird]

Unfortunately, a Conductive melee weapon only works for melee touch abilities.

The only magical means of making a bonus AoO that comes to mind is Force Punch, but unfortunately it's a fortitude save. If it was specialized with metamagic it could get pretty effective I guess, allowing a Magus or Dragon Disciple or whatever to make a nasty 1-2 combo that roughs up a foe and sends them flying. Or a 1-2-3 combo on a spell storing weapon.

[Velxir]

You are correct, melee and ranged touch attacks.

Gah, I want to do more with this bullrush mechanic as a caster but its kinda hard.

I could just go barbarian with Spiked Destroyer, Merciless Rush, and the Bullrush rage power and be effective, but meh

[Scott Wilhelm]

Velxir wrote:

You don't count as your own ally for the purposes of greater bullrush?

EDIT: Just read it again. I assumed it worked like greater trip, but nope. Welp. There goes my idea :P

You can still have your idea. After you get Greater Bull Rush, take a level in Cavalier and take the Paired Opportunist Feat. Cavaliers ahve a class ability where they give their allies their Teamwork Feat. And when you and yours have Paired Opportunist, whenever any of you get an Attack of Opportunity, you all do. So when your allies get an AoO from your GBR, so do you.

I am fond of the idea of linking Bull Rushing with shields. Take Shield Slam, GBR, and Paired Opportunist. Use a large spiked shield or a Klar, like with Thunder and Fang, with the Bashing Enchantment, and your shield will do 2d6. Shield Slam gets around the restriction of where your victim can't be bull rushed into a wall or something. Flank your victim, and when you get your Attack of Opportunity, make that another Shield Slam, followed by another Bull Rush with another attack of opportunity, which will be another shield bash...

[Silent Saturn]

You could just use the domain power as your standard action, then use your move action to position yourself so that the enemies you bull rushed can't get to any of your friends without passing through your threatened area. Deceptively easy to do with a reach weapon.

You'll also still get AoO's against any enemy who tries to come at you, as normal. The Wind bull rush can be handy even if you just use it to push away people who get up in your grill.

[Magda Luckbender]

Clerics are generally feat-starved. Your plan will still work without the feats Imp Bull Rush & Greater Bull rush. I'd drop those feats. Like Silent Saturn says above, use your power to push foes back from your threatened zone, so you get additional AoOs. 14 STR and a reach weapon is better than Guided Hand and lower STR, and costs no feats. I may be mistaken, but I believe you can Bull Rush prone foes at +4. So consider tripping with AoOs at reach.

Paired Opportunists is fantastic for this build (same +4 maneuver bonus as those two feats!), but really only works in combination with a mount, and that mount must have reach. With any ally except a mount-with-reach the tactical restrictions are too big for it to work well. You need an ally who will synchronize all movement with you ...

Cleric builds need to be lean and mean. You have so many great single feats available, and so few feat slots, that it's tough to go into deep feat trees. E.g.: Toughness, Selective Channeling?, assorted Summoning feats, Improved Initiative, etc. Don't be tempted to multiclass.

[lemeres]

Another idea would be to use pushing assault.

Get a full attack, and then push the enemy with maybe the BAB-5 hit. Now the enemy ends up 15' feet away. Thus, they might well have to waste a move walking to you again (and they draw an AoO).

The beauty of this is that you can play a game of keep away like this- they get next to you, you take a 5' step back, you push them, and they have to move next to you again to attack. Most character will only get 1 attack on your during this, while you get your full attack and an AoO (maybe two, if you have a fortuitous weapon).

I also like lunge, since it lets you move up to an enemy and get them into the 15' range (or heck, 20' with pushing assault). It also lets you full attack anything in a 45' wide circle. Tons of fun.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Velxir wrote:

You don't count as your own ally for the purposes of greater bullrush?

EDIT: Just read it again. I assumed it worked like greater trip, but nope. Welp. There goes my idea :P

You can still have your idea. After you get Greater Bull Rush, take a level in Cavalier and take the Paired Opportunist Feat. Cavaliers ahve a class ability where they give their allies their Teamwork Feat. And when you and yours have Paired Opportunist, whenever any of you get an Attack of Opportunity, you all do. So when your allies get an AoO from your GBR, so do you.

I am fond of the idea of linking Bull Rushing with shields. Take Shield Slam, GBR, and Paired Opportunist. Use a large spiked shield or a Klar, like with Thunder and Fang, with the Bashing Enchantment, and your shield will do 2d6. Shield Slam gets around the restriction of where your victim can't be bull rushed into a wall or something. Flank your victim, and when you get your Attack of Opportunity, make that another Shield Slam, followed by another Bull Rush with another attack of opportunity, which will be another shield bash...

Another way to get Paired Opportunist and use it would be if you were an Inquisitor instead of a Cleric or Druid. Level 3 Inquisitors get a Class Ability where they can act as if all their allies had one of their Teamwork Feats. It's called Solo Tactics. You can still have your favorite Domain or Subdomain. And you will be a like a cleric, but a little more martial, which seems to be what you want.