Empiricist RE Amazing Inspiration; "You don't really say that, do you?"

[Cyrus Lanthier]

Amazing Inspiration wrote:

When using inspiration, the investigator rolls a d8 instead of a d6. At 20th level, the investigator rolls 2d8 and adds both dice to the result. An investigator must be at least 7th level to select this talent.

So... 20th level. 20th character level?

20th level Investigator seems to be the intent - okay, cool. But, what if you don't get True Inspiration, because you're an Empiricist? The unwritten assumption seems to be that you get 2d8 instead of the 2d6 that an Investigator would normally roll due to having True Inspiration, but RAW it does not say that, only that you roll 2d8 "at 20th level." Does a 20th level Empiricist with this talent roll 1d8 or 2d8 when using inspiration?

Personally, I think it's probably intended not to work for the Empiricist in this way, but I also think that nerfing a capstone ability is a confusing (and bad) way to balance an archetype, so maybe the workaround is there on purpose? Or, maybe it's a happy accident that they will never get around to FAQing, I don't know.

[dragonhunterq]

class abilities always refer to class level unless specifically stated otherwise.

PRD on multiclassing wrote:

Note that there are a number of effects and prerequisites that rely on a character's level or Hit Dice. Such effects are always based on the total number of levels or Hit Dice a character possesses, not just those from one class. The exception to this is class abilities, most of which are based on the total number of class levels that a character possesses of that particular class.

this on class features might be worth a look at.

[Cyrus Lanthier]

The problem is that Amazing Inspiration says "At 20th level" not "If you also have True Inspiration." It doesn't ask for a particular class feature apart from the talent itself, it asks for 20th level (presumably 20th level in Investigator. I was sort of joking around about character level).

So... At 20th level Investigator, with the Empiricist Archetype (or any other Archetype that doesn't receive True Inspiration) and the Amazing Inspiration talent (quoted above), what die or dice do you roll when using Inspiration and why?

[dragonhunterq]

ok, I understand the question now, sorry.

As written you get 2d8. Amazing inspiration doesn't refer to True inspiration and an Empiricist is still a level 20 investigator. Not sure thats the intent though, and considering the quality of editing in the ACG...

Either:
amazing inspiration really shouldn't have the line about 2d8 in it. that's covered by true inspiration.

It should be 1d8 for Empiricist using it.

or:
Empiricist should have the second line of true inspiration allowing him to roll 2d6.

in which case it should be 2d8 for the Empiricist.

If it's the latter, why not just leave the capstone as True Inspiration? I am of the firm opinion that the former is the intended ruling, and it is how I will rule it in my games.

my 2cp, but I have been wrong before and it won't be the last time :)