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Playing a PFS Character and I just want to better understand if what I want to do is feasible.
Lvl 2 Rogue with a masterwork rapier who specializes in disarming opponents (combat expertise, improved disarm as 1st level feats)
I know lots of people play TWF rogues for the damage, but I just feel like it's out of place for how I envision my character.
Now that I have a little more gold to spend, I wanted to get a few flasks of Alchemist's Fire to utilize in combat.
As the rapier is a one-handed weapon, it makes sense to me that I would be left a free hand to hold a vial of alchemist's fire and wait for the opportune moment, but I can't seem to find a good example of wielding a weapon in one hand and holding a flask in the other. Basically I just want to have the flask out and ready if a good opportunity presents itself, as a rapier cannot be wielded with two hands for a 1-1/2 STR bonus, and a rogue cannot use shields. I already have a free hand, and I don't want to waste a turn fumbling for gear if I could already be holding it at the start of combat.
If I don't attack with both items in the same round, will I take any negatives to having both hands occupied? (Will I take a negative to rapier attacks simply by holding, but not throwing, a vial in the same round that I get stabby with my main weapon?)
Also, are there any rules for if I am holding the alchemists fire and am bull-rushed, disarmed, knocked prone, etc? I imagine I would have to make some sort of save or be burned by a vial dropped in my square.
Any sort of advice or experience would be appreciated.
TL:DR
What's going to happen if I hold a sword in one hand, and a splash weapon in the other?
You can hold it without any penalties. You just cannot attack with both during the same round without incurring massive penalties if you lack TWF.
AFAIK there are no rules as to your dropping the flask. You wouldn't drop your shield if bullrushed would you? But there are conditions that make you drop it. And there is sunder.
It would be cool though if it broke, these flasks are designed to break on falling.
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You can hold it without any penalties. You just cannot attack with both during the same round without incurring massive penalties if you lack TWF.
AFAIK there are no rules as to your dropping the flask. You wouldn't drop your shield if bullrushed would you? But there are conditions that make you drop it. And there is sunder.
It would be cool though if it broke, these flasks are designed to break on falling.
Thanks for the input, I appreciate the quick response on these forums.
I thought it would be more complicated as far as combat maneuvers go, because if I play it out in my head, it totally makes sense to me that if I was knocked over or any other kind of violent movement that the flask could break and I would inadvertently catch myself on fire, maybe even making a save to throw the flask away from myself.
Yes, it could indeed. And, if you think that's fun, that is what happens :-)
I don't think any GM or player will object. Oh, wait, PFS ;-)
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Yes, it could indeed. And, if you think that's fun, that is what happens :-)
I don't think any GM or player will object. Oh, wait, PFS ;-)
Yes, there-in lies the rub. I've found that I much prefer Pathfinder to RPG video games because of the ability to solve solutions more creatively, but given my work schedule, having a recurring home game has been difficult, so I attend PFS when I can, even though it means being a bit railroaded and given a tad less room to improvise.
This is a valid fighting style.
1) if you only attack with your rapier, or only throw the flask, you do so with no penalty.
2) If you do both in the same round, you take the usual TWF penalties.
3) As long as you have that flask in your off hand, you do not count as having a free hand for any action that requires one, such as grabbing an opponent's weapon after a successful disarm.
4) anything that would cause you to drop that flask would be... delicate. Certain conditions, disarm, sunder and the like could all be dicey. I would give you a reflex save to avoid taking full damage, but you'd still take splash damage, as could your adjacent allies or enemies. IIRC this particular case is not covered in the rules.
You only get the TWF penalty when you gain an additional attack by doing so. If you have two attacks from being hasted or from having a high BAB you can stab once and throw the alchemist's fire without TWF penalty.
Only if you use up all your attacks with your main weapon and still want to throw in addition to that it is TWF.
Edit:
Multiple Weapons, Extra Attacks, and Two-Weapon Fighting: If I have extra attacks from a high BAB, can I make attacks with different weapons and not incur a two-weapon fighting penalty?
Yes. Basically, you only incur TWF penalties if you are trying to get an extra attack per round.
Let's assume you're a 6th-level fighter (BAB +6/+1) holding a longsword in one hand and a light mace in the other. Your possible full attack combinations without using two-weapon fighting are:
(A) longsword at +6, longsword +1
(B) mace +6, mace +1
(C) longsword +6, mace +1
(D) mace +6, longsword +1
All of these combinations result in you making exactly two attacks, one at +6 and one at +1. You're not getting any extra attacks, therefore you're not using the two-weapon fighting rule, and therefore you're not taking any two-weapon fighting penalties.
If you have Quick Draw, you could even start the round wielding only one weapon, make your main attack with it, draw the second weapon as a free action after your first attack, and use that second weapon to make your iterative attack (an "iterative attack" is an informal term meaning "extra attacks you get from having a high BAB"). As long as you're properly using the BAB values for your iterative attacks, and as long as you're not exceeding the number of attacks per round granted by your BAB, you are not considered to be using two-weapon fighting, and therefore do not take any of the penalties for two-weapon fighting.
The two-weapon fighting option in the Core Rulebook specifically refers to getting an extra attack for using a second weapon in your offhand. In the above four examples, there is no extra attack, therefore you're not using two-weapon fighting.
Using the longsword/mace example, if you use two-weapon fighting you actually have fewer options than if you aren't. Your options are (ignoring the primary/off hand penalties):
(A') primary longsword at +6, primary longsword at +1, off hand mace at +6
(B') primary mace at +6, primary mace at +1, off hand longsword at +6
In other words, once you decide you're using two-weapon fighting to get that extra attack on your turn (which you have to decide before you take any attacks on your turn), that decision locks you in to the format of "my primary weapon gets my main attack and my iterative attack, and my off hand weapon only gets the extra attack, and I apply two-weapon fighting penalties."
Alchemists fire tend to go off. Apart from that you're okay.
One of the best moves I ever witnessed was when we were in a bar fight and then the guy draws his alchemists fire, and we think he's going to throw it at the minions, and instead he leaps on the countertop and smashes it in the bosses face. Long story short, alchemists fire makes a great melee weapon if you can get fire resist.
What if you get grappled? Does it just go off?
Yes, there-in lies the rub. I've found that I much prefer Pathfinder to RPG video games because of the ability to solve solutions more creatively, but given my work schedule, having a recurring home game has been difficult, so I attend PFS when I can, even though it means being a bit railroaded and given a tad less room to improvise.Yes, it could indeed. And, if you think that's fun, that is what happens :-)
I don't think any GM or player will object. Oh, wait, PFS ;-)
It's certainly not game-breaking to damage yourself. So I think even a PFS GM will allow the vial to break. Just confer before starting. Everyone loves flavor man.
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Alchemists fire tend to go off. Apart from that you're okay.
One of the best moves I ever witnessed was when we were in a bar fight and then the guy draws his alchemists fire, and we think he's going to throw it at the minions, and instead he leaps on the countertop and smashes it in the bosses face. Long story short, alchemists fire makes a great melee weapon if you can get fire resist.
What if you get grappled? Does it just go off?
That's a great story, I'll keep that in mind next bar fight.
As for grappling I would think that maybe myself and the grappler would both potentially take damage from that.
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I have a tiefling with resist fire 5 that may have to start playing with alchemist's fire.