| anlume |
The Bard has long been known as the "support" class, one who cannot effectively fight (excluding archer bards) and has better to hold his own ground. Melee bards do exist, but they are rather squishy (even if they are a lot of fun). A friend of mine plays a bard/barbarian/dragon disciple that of course isn't the most optimized character out there, but is a lot of fun.
Me, I always liked the idea of a TWF Bard, but found it impossible to build until the last books.
Here's the idea:
Swashbuckler 1 (Inspired Blade archetype)/ Bard 19 (Arcane Duelist)
By being human and taking weapon finesse and weapon focus (rapier) via the class and then and fencing grace (as a feat) at first level, it is possible to have dexterity for to-hut and damage. That also covers the requirements for TWF, and Swashbuckler synergizes well with Bard. Arcane Duelist gives all kind of stuff a melee "fighter with some magic" concept may require. Inspire Courage and Arcane Strike affect both swords, same do Discordant Voice and (I'm not sure about this one) Bladethirst.
Again, this isn't CoD, but I really like to see a kind of Bard which actually gets good AC and decent to-hit and damage (all of those depending on Dex).
I made it the son of a noble who is willing to prove is valor (we're playing Kingmaker) and build his own army (I plan to use him as a general for the troops. In fact, due to bardic music, social abilities and the fact that he's actually a decent fighter, he is the best army commander I can imagine. Bard magic is also good, especially when you think of Hastened troops.
What do you think? My plans incluse the full TWG chain, plus Oversized TWF from 3.5 (I'm choosing rapiers, so I took Fencing Grace), Toughness, Improved Critical and maybe a critical feat.
I'm also really unsure if it may he a good idea to grab Spellsong. I use Oratory as mmy main Perform skill, I don't know if it works with other skills which are not Perform (Singing). The feat doesn't say it requires that particular skill, but still I'm not sure.
| wraithstrike |
The Bard has long been known as the "support" class, one who cannot effectively fight (excluding archer bards) and has better to hold his own ground. Melee bards do exist, but they are rather squishy (even if they are a lot of fun). A friend of mine plays a bard/barbarian/dragon disciple that of course isn't the most optimized character out there, but is a lot of fun.
Me, I always liked the idea of a TWF Bard, but found it impossible to build until the last books.
Here's the idea:
Swashbuckler 1 (Inspired Blade archetype)/ Bard 19 (Arcane Duelist)
By being human and taking weapon finesse and weapon focus (rapier) via the class and then and fencing grace (as a feat) at first level, it is possible to have dexterity for to-hut and damage. That also covers the requirements for TWF, and Swashbuckler synergizes well with Bard. Arcane Duelist gives all kind of stuff a melee "fighter with some magic" concept may require. Inspire Courage and Arcane Strike affect both swords, same do Discordant Voice and (I'm not sure about this one) Bladethirst.
Again, this isn't CoD, but I really like to see a kind of Bard which actually gets good AC and decent to-hit and damage (all of those depending on Dex).
I made it the son of a noble who is willing to prove is valor (we're playing Kingmaker) and build his own army (I plan to use him as a general for the troops. In fact, due to bardic music, social abilities and the fact that he's actually a decent fighter, he is the best army commander I can imagine. Bard magic is also good, especially when you think of Hastened troops.
What do you think? My plans incluse the full TWG chain, plus Oversized TWF from 3.5 (I'm choosing rapiers, so I took Fencing Grace), Toughness, Improved Critical and maybe a critical feat.
I'm also really unsure if it may he a good idea to grab Spellsong. I use Oratory as mmy main Perform skill, I don't know if it works with other skills which are not Perform (Singing). The feat doesn't say it requires that particular skill, but still I'm...
You are actually better off without oversized two weapon fighting.
| wraithstrike |
Really? It's like a +2 on every attack, I thought it was good.
It is not really a +2. It just removed the penalty for using a one-handed weapon in your off hand. The damage boost of a rapier over a light weapon is not really worth a feat.
If you are going to spend a feat then go with a sawtooth sabre. At least you have the option to switch over to power attacking if needed.
| MightyK |
This whole concept does only work with a rapier though.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/fencing-grace-combat
Prerequisite(s): Dex 13, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (rapier).
Benefit(s): When wielding a rapier one-handed, you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The rapier must be one appropriate for your size.
| lemeres |
Why would it be impossible to build? All you need is a dawnflower dervish/dervish of the dawn.
They get double bonuses on inspire courage in return for only applying its effects to themselves. That puts it on par with favored enemy at level 1- a +2 to every attack and damage roll. And later on, it can deal up to +8- enough to stay on par with many martial characters.
The only caveat is that you have to forget about their titular ability- dervish dance is not that good for them anyway (they are hardly built for 1 weapon/1 hand).
Maybe throw in some arcane strike later on for more damage.
| LoneKnave |
Probably for 2 free feats+deeds. It's a nice dip for a more martial build. I'd use dual Rapiers as well and grab Effortless Lace for one of them.
Saves you a feat, tho a bit pricey. Could just use a light off-hand weapon until then.
For the record, the concept was nowhere near unplayable before either, as long as you get Agile on your weapons. It's one of the better ways of building a dawnflower dervish if you don't want to go natural weapons, for example.
| lemeres |
Eh, I could pull off a decent enough strength based TWF bard on a 20 pt buy if I got a bit...scorched earth...on mental scores. Here is an example
STR: 16 DEX: 16 (14) CON: 14 INT: 9 WIS: 7 CHA: 14
Just add the level 4 ability score increase to dex, and then forget about it entirely. 17 DEX is enough to qualify for all the good TWF feats (the only one that needs 19 that I remember would be greater TWF...which adds a BAB-12 attack. Not worth it, particularly on a 3/4 BAB character).
Obviously INT and WIS can be switched as desired.
| anlume |
Why would it be impossible to build? All you need is a dawnflower dervish/dervish of the dawn.
They get double bonuses on inspire courage in return for only applying its effects to themselves. That puts it on par with favored enemy at level 1- a +2 to every attack and damage roll. And later on, it can deal up to +8- enough to stay on par with many martial characters.
The only caveat is that you have to forget about their titular ability- dervish dance is not that good for them anyway (they are hardly built for 1 weapon/1 hand).
Maybe throw in some arcane strike later on for more damage.
Indeed. But it defies the whole point of being a bard (party support in my opinion) and is more like a "hybrid" like the magus itself. Just with more skills. Like a rouge/sorc or something.
I am a very collaborative player, so I tend to prefer characters who can help the party a lot. I was just thinking of a Bard who can hold his ground among a very martial-oriented party (ranger and paladin, we are three). I also wanted to try something new and even a bit risky (magus would be better for the purpouse, but I fell in love with the idea of this character)
Effortless lace is just awesome, but we don't optimize that much, so I'll pay the feat tax. thank you anyway for your interest :)