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I'm playing in a game right now with a Magus, we just hit level 5. The game will likely go to high levels (possibly 20) so I'm trying to get a decent build down to keep him relevant. As such I'm looking for basically everything I posted in the title (and more!).
Feel free to post on anything in the build, something you see that is week (unnecessary), etc. The game I'm playing in is easy now, but from what the GM tells me, once we hit mid-levels the sort of encounters we will be facing are going to be quite difficult (from what I understand, encounters with several CR appropriate and above monsters, like easily 10 at a time with occasional epic monsters mixed in). So I want to do what I can to try and keep up in Combat and Remain viable out of combat.
I'm going to spoiler some things to make it look neater. At the end I will include some specific questions I hope to have addressed.
Witch (Likes to Slumber+Debuff)
Paladin (Sword&Shield)
Fighter (Martial Master, prefers TWF and One Big Weapon)
Ranger (Archer, Switch Hits when unable to shoot, has a Leopard)
Rogue (TWF, Skill Monkey Extraordinaire + Trap Finder)
Eventually we might have a Summoner join as well.
Race= Elf (took Arcane Focus Racial Trait)
HP=49
AC=18
FCB= Extra Arcana (5/6)
Stength= 19
Dexterity= 16
Constitution= 16
Intelligence= 20
Wisdom= 10
Charisma= 06
These are post-racial and include the level 4 bump. We used a non-standard point-buy.
Warrior of Old
Magical Lineage: Shocking Grasp
Feats:
1) Extra Arcane Pool
3) Extra Arcana: Arcane Deed (Precise Strike)
5) Heighten Spell
5) Preferred Spell (Shocking Grasp)
7) Intensified Spell
9) Improved Familiar (Faerie Dragon: for Action-Economy, Utility, Wand+UMD Usage)
11) Elemental Spell
11) Spell Penetration
13) Maximize/Empower Spell
15) Spell Perfection: Shocking Grasp/Vampiric Touch
17) Craft Wondrous Item?
17) Greater Spell Penetration
19) Extra Arcane Pool/Weapon Focus/Extra Arcana: Arcane Deed*
Arcana
3) Flamboyant Arcana
3) Precise Strike (Talked with my DM, got the "OK" for it working with Spell Combat and using Magus levels.)
6) Familiar
6) Arcane Accuracy
9) Accurate Strike
12) Maximized Magic/Devoted Blade/Ghost Blade/Dispelling Strike
12/13) Spell Blending
15) Bane Blade
18) Reflection
18/19) Quickened Magic/Maximized Magic/Arcane Deed for Stunning Stab
19) Cheat Death* If I take Extra Arcana
So this is the current layout that I have going, definitely not set in stone.
A few, specific, questions I had:
1) Ideas for Spells for Spell Blending. A few ideas that came to mind are Enervation, Resist Energy Communal, False Life, Heroism.
2) My feat choices for 17-19 are kind of up in the air. I would like to grab Craft Wondrous but 17 seems a little late for it to really be useful.
3) Maximized Spell vs Empowered Spell. I know Empowered is generally considered better, but the main purpose of grabbing either at 13 is for sticking it on spell perfection. Do you think Empower still holds out better for the marginal damage difference and greater versatility?
4) Thoughts on the other Level 12 Arcana.
Thanks for the help, feel free to bring the heat. ^_^
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First of all, I'm not familiar with the advanced class guide, so I can't say anything about those things.
Then, what is your style? Str magus, dervish magus? What are your weapons? How would you like it?
I don't like reflection very much, it's too expensive, and you have many arcanas, so those are going to be your main arcane pool-powered abilities.
If you are more of a dervish magus, I suppose you aren't going heavy on armour. If that's so, spell blending on mage armor can be effective, but a wand also can do the trick. Ghoul touch is a good spell for spell blending though, specially against spellcasters, who don't usually have a good Fort save.
Spell perfection doesn't change the level of the spell, right? You could have both effects, one from a feat and one from a metamagic rod. Remember that if it's shocking grasp, you don't need to discharge it in the same round you cast it. You could charge a SG with the rod, as a normal spell, put away the rod, so you have a free hand, and when you start your turn in melee with an enemy, spell combat him, a normal blow being charged with your metamagicked spell, and the spell of spell combat being another shocking grasp with only the feat you have. Also, when comparing both feats, remember that the magus can get a spell crit far more easily (usually) than other mages. A crit with maximized (intensified) shocking grasp deals 120, while a crit with empowered (intensified) SG, assuming that it deals 15d6 (empowering AFTER intensifying), are 30d6 from 30 to 180, while it's average is 90, being %75 of the other.
The magus is one of my favourite classes, if I think about anything else I'll post it. Hope this helped.
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Another question for you is what kind of Campaign is being run and your typical day/encounters?
Lots of little fights vs just a few big ones.
Lots of minions or just a Boss with maybe a add or two.
Typical monster your fighting (Undead/Demons/Devils/humanoids etc)
All of these can have a major effect in your resource management.
-facepalm- Can't believe I forgot to go into detail about this sort of stuff.
So the campaign is fairly episodic in nature, one live in a (big) city and deal with the problems that come up. It's also set in the Forgotten Realms (but we are running Pathfinder).
Honestly, what we fight, varies weekly. We fight a good bit of humans but there are plenty of monsters too. A lot of the encounters are "5-8 mooks and 1-3 Elite's" sort of deal. Sometimes we have 1 wizard and some mooks. So it can really vary.
Some days are more RP focused, with 1 or two encounters, others are dungeon crawls where it's one problem after another.
I can tell you that once we start getting higher level Plane Hopping will be something that happens (also using rules from DND about all the weirdness that happens to your equipment in other planes). Finally, again once higher level, I do know for a fact that we will spend a LOT of time in the Underdark.
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1. I would also consider Greater Stunning Barrier and (at late levels) Contingency. Icy Prison is a good Reflex save or suck with a partial effect either way; picking up that and a good Will targeter could be useful (Magus does Fort just fine already).
Nice, thanks for all of that. So I really like Greater Stunning Barrier, my only issue is the stacking. I'll have to check with my DM to see his interpretation if the Greater version uses untyped bonuses or not. Either way, the Will Save or be stunned on repeat is nice.
Contingency will be something I'll have to make room for.
2. Yeah, 17 is late to craft. Some of the Critical feats are at least worth considering. Extra Traits might be worthwhile for you eventually. Snagging Spellhunter and another trait could be nice since you're pushing metamagic. Weapon Focus & Greater could be nice. When in doubt, at high levels I find Extra Arcana for Spell Blending is a good move.
I figured 17 was too late. Maybe I'll switch out Elemental Spell for it.
I probably will skip on the critical feats. I totally agree they are worth it, but I'm already having issues trying to find space for single feats early on. Extra Traits though is something I've strongly considered, I'm just not sure what else to grab beside Spellhunter.
I shall keep Spell Blending in mind.
3. I would honestly try to find room for both. Between Lineage and Perfection, Empowered/Maximized/Intensified is 3rd level. Probably drop Elemental Spell, honestly, unless you expect to be fighting a lot of electric-immune enemies. My standard strategy for if I am is to simply break out the /rest/ of the Magus arsenal, so I usually don't worry too much about Elemental Spell.
I think I may have been too focused on the "make Shocking Grasp work on EVERYTHING" philosophy. It's easy to forget that there are a bunch of other tricks out there...
As noted above, maybe I'll grab Craft Wondrous or Empower Spell at 11 instead.
4. 12 is an excellent level to Spell Blending in something like Heroism + Greater Stunning Barrier. Bleeding Wound can also be nice for screwing with casters; I prefer it over Arcane Edge due to being a free action. Evasive is also subtly awesome. I wouldn't bother with Cheat Death; if death is a serious problem at level 19 I'd think your party has bigger concerns.
I originally planned on taking Arcane Deed for Evasive and if I was a dex based Magi I probably would without any second thoughts. I just question how useful it will be since reflex is my weak save to start with. Do you think it would really be worth it on a Str based Magus?
Bleeding Wound for spellcasters seems iffy to me, again mostly because I'm not Dex based. Even with a +4 belt at that point (which would probably be a lot) I'm looking at a +5 dex mod. That doesn't sound like it would be that hard of a concentration check for any caster that's truly a threat. It is nice though, and making something bleed Con (or Dex if something like a Dragon) is nasty.
Thanks for the thoughts!
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First of all, I'm not familiar with the advanced class guide, so I can't say anything about those things.
Then, what is your style? Str magus, dervish magus? What are your weapons? How would you like it?
I don't like reflection very much, it's too expensive, and you have many arcanas, so those are going to be your main arcane pool-powered abilities.
If you are more of a dervish magus, I suppose you aren't going heavy on armour. If that's so, spell blending on mage armor can be effective, but a wand also can do the trick. Ghoul touch is a good spell for spell blending though, specially against spellcasters, who don't usually have a good Fort save.
Spell perfection doesn't change the level of the spell, right? You could have both effects, one from a feat and one from a metamagic rod. Remember that if it's shocking grasp, you don't need to discharge it in the same round you cast it. You could charge a SG with the rod, as a normal spell, put away the rod, so you have a free hand, and when you start your turn in melee with an enemy, spell combat him, a normal blow being charged with your metamagicked spell, and the spell of spell combat being another shocking grasp with only the feat you have. Also, when comparing both feats, remember that the magus can get a spell crit far more easily (usually) than other mages. A crit with maximized (intensified) shocking grasp deals 120, while a crit with empowered (intensified) SG, assuming that it deals 15d6 (empowering AFTER intensifying), are 30d6 from 30 to 180, while it's average is 90, being %75 of the other.The magus is one of my favourite classes, if I think about anything else I'll post it. Hope this helped.
The Magus is one of my favorite classes too!
I'm building a Strength based Magus. I considered a Dex based one in the beginning but with the higher point buy I figured Str was viable. My only regret is that a bunch of the Swashbuckler Deeds are Dex based and a lot better if you have a high dex. But that's okay.
As such I plan on using Heavy Armor so Mage Armor won't be super useful. But good point.
I agree that Reflection is really expensive, but it is SO powerful. At worst I can just pop a couple points and augment my saves (assuming a good spellcraft). If a really dangerous spell, and assuming there are points to be had, you can both stop some big nasty from potentially wrecking you AND potentially wreck them (serves them right if they used a Save or Suck/Die).
I'll keep the Rod Shenanigans in Mind. So are you suggesting that dropping Spell Perfection on Shocking Grasp (at that point) over Vampiric Touch is worth considering?
