[UE] Spellstrike Gloves - Please clarify "other created effects" ?

[CanisDirus]

Spellstrike Gloves, found in Ultimate Equipment have a curious description as to what spells can or cannot be used:

Quote:

...the gloves allow the wearer to treat a ranged magus spell as a spell with a range of “touch,” allowing him to deliver the spell with his spellstrike ability. The glove can only affect spells that normally affect one or more creatures at a range greater than “touch” (such as slow), not rays or other created effects. The altered spell only affects the creature attacked (any other targets normally allowed by the spell are lost).

Emphasis mine.

How is "other created effects" defined? Any spell that has a physical "presence" (i.e. Snowball, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Web, Black Tentacles, etc.)? Or is it only Rays, Conjuration spells, and other spells that bring something into being (so Snow/Fireball would be okay, but not Web/Black Tentacles)?

Thank you very much in advance.

[Elicoor]

"Ray and other created effects" refer to the spell description, where you can sometimes have a line saying "Effect ray". If there's an Effect line, the spell's out.

Fireball would be out as it doesn't affect one or more creatures. Slow is a good example : it targets one or more creatures, at a specific range greater than touch.

[Le Petite Mort]

Here's my interpretation; The spell chosen must meet the following criteria:

1) The spell must be a spell on the magus list.

2) The spell must have a range greater than touch.

3) The spell cannot be delivered via a ray, or perhaps through any 'ranged touch attack'. Basically, if you have to roll to hit the creature, it's out. (I'm not talking about SR, I mean an actual attack roll)

4) The spell must target actual creatures, not points in space or areas that contain them.

Basically, I don't think you can use them to create things in the environment, or spellstrike ranged touch attacks. Snowball would be out, as the 'created effect' of the snowball is delivered through an attack. Undine's Curse however, would be allowable.

[CanisDirus]

That makes a lot more sense, put that way, Le Petite.

So you could theoretically Spellstrike with Reduce Person, Magic Missile, Shining Cord, Discharge (great vs robots), Arcane Disruption, or even Invisibility (if you wanted to make a "show" of "killing" an ally or something strange RP-wise).

But what about, say, Air Geyser or Hydraulic Push? Both are Magus spells, range > touch, target creatures rather than areas. Air Geyser seems to work okay, but Hydraulic Push seems to be gray area, since thematically you're shooting a torrent of water, but mechanically you're automatically hitting (just whether or not your CMB is high enough to bull rush remains to be seen as part of the spell). Could a pirate Magus stab someone and have them get blasted back by water as part of the spellstrike through the gloves? :P

*thinks* also, what about, say, Phantasmal Killer, Baleful Polymorph, or Flesh to Stone?

[Le Petite Mort]

CanisDirus wrote:

That makes a lot more sense, put that way, Le Petite.

So you could theoretically Spellstrike with Reduce Person, Magic Missile, Shining Cord, Discharge (great vs robots), Arcane Disruption, or even Invisibility (if you wanted to make a "show" of "killing" an ally or something strange RP-wise).

But what about, say, Air Geyser or Hydraulic Push? Both are Magus spells, range > touch, target creatures rather than areas. Air Geyser seems to work okay, but Hydraulic Push seems to be gray area, since thematically you're shooting a torrent of water, but mechanically you're automatically hitting (just whether or not your CMB is high enough to bull rush remains to be seen as part of the spell). Could a pirate Magus stab someone and have them get blasted back by water as part of the spellstrike through the gloves? :P

*thinks* also, what about, say, Phantasmal Killer, Baleful Polymorph, or Flesh to Stone?

Air geyser does not work due to the first two words of its description. "You create..." This is a created effect, so no dice.

Hydraulic push requires a CMB roll, which is an attack roll, so no there. It also starts with "You call forth..." which I think is close enough to the phrase "You create..."

I think Phantasmal Killer works, oddly enough. If you were actually creating or summoning a creature, it wouldn't, but you're inducing a hallucination in the target. This effects them, it doesn't actually change the environment nor does it require a successful attack roll with a physically created object.

Baleful Polymorph should work. You are not creating anything, you are transmuting the target. Same with flesh to stone.

Magic Missile...now that I don't know. It does seem to create an object, in a way, but there's no roll or anything. I'd expect a lot of table variance for that.

[Elicoor]

As I pointed out before : an effect is something written in the spell description, usually above the Duration line.

All ray spells have an Effect ray line in their description.
Hydraulic push does NOT have that line, so it's an ok spell.
Air geyser also functions as it's not an effect spell !

Basically, this thing is meant to prevent the use of ranged touch attack spells in melee. (as they are all effect spells)

[Byakko]

I'm not sure the word "effect" in the description is that specific... FAQed for you.

[Le Petite Mort]

Elicoor wrote:

As I pointed out before : an effect is something written in the spell description, usually above the Duration line.

All ray spells have an Effect ray line in their description.
Hydraulic push does NOT have that line, so it's an ok spell.
Air geyser also functions as it's not an effect spell !

Basically, this thing is meant to prevent the use of ranged touch attack spells in melee. (as they are all effect spells)

Ohhhhhhh. What about things like Burning Hands? That has an Area line instead of an Effect line, but Area is usually shorthand for Area of Effect.