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First I should note that while part of this might seem like an advice question, overall it belongs in the rules section I feel because even if you ignore the conceptual stuff of what I'm doing, the question stills stand...
What happens to a Black-blood Oracle in an Anti-Magic zone?
So, Oracle's Curses are Extraordinary, which means that they don't get negated by a Anti-Magic/Dead Zone. I'm an oracle, I live to Alkenstar I lose all my spells but the curse? I keep it. Sucks to be an oracle in Alkenstar...
BUT what if you are Black Blood Oracle? It's Supernatural.. therefore you lose it...
BUT it cannot be lost by anything short of a deity... does that then count? You don't lose it, or do you lose the benefits but not the negatives?
What I was thinking for the background of this character from Alkenstar who was made a black blood spellscar oracle from a primal magic event (the idea is it was a Sands of Time effect of high CR that instantly killed her... since she died of old age (and in a totally F'ed up unfair way) Charon approached her and made a deal with her... he would restore her youth in return for her soul when she died again. She accepted, and so he brought her back and neither she nor the friend she was with realizes anything happened at all because the 'death' and 'talk' with Charon was instantaneous to them... and he also made her a black-blood oracle in a kind of half-undeadesque effect... then the spellscar, cause hey primal magic killed her, so why not?) is after 24 hours you fall into a coma and "die"... as the black blood in your veins starts to kill you because you are no longer immune. Eventually you really will die, if nothing else cause you are not eating or drinking and no amount of healing is going to make you better... cause you're in an anti-magic zone...
When you return to a magic friendly area then you "come back to life" oooh it's a miracle! No, you weren't really dead, everyone just thinks you were... :P
So, what do you think of this scenario, or what other things do you think should happen since it's Supernatural unlike every other Oracle's Curse?
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It will be HIGHLY dependant on the GM.
It depends on the player to a degree as well.
Officially...
Elementals, undead, and outsider are likewise unaffected unless summoned. These creatures' spell-like or supernatural abilities may be temporarily nullified by the field. Dispel magic does not remove the field.
In essence, I would treat the abilities as I would treat Undead in that field. If somehow you could be hit with positive energy, it would harm you and negative energy would heal you.
Dark Blood Spray probably would be suppressed, but Darkvision may still work. Dark Resilience is another one of those things with the AMF that would be iffy if it could be triggered, but hypothetically speaking...I would probably also have that suppressed.
However, as I said, it is HIGHLY GM specific, so it depends on how the GM feels about it and interprets the rules.
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One, I am the DM.
Two, I didn't say anything about taking another curse, I am talking about the Curse of Black Blood, since it states Curse of Black Blood (Su)...
Three, whether it's "intended" to be suppressed or not, if it's supernatural then it's suppressed in some way in an anti-magic zone. Just like a familiar loses it's abilities (but doesn't stop being a familiar)?
That's what I am asking.
Not to be rude, but it really ticks me off when people just say "Ask your GM" in the rules forum.
EDIT: Ninja'd by Greywolf... Thanks! Actually the Undead thing makes a lot of sense, and the Revelations would all of course depend on their individual entries... I think the Darkvision is Ex...
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One, I am the DM.
Two, I didn't say anything about taking another curse, I am talking about the Curse of Black Blood, since it states Curse of Black Blood (Su)...
Three, whether it's "intended" to be suppressed or not, if it's supernatural then it's suppressed in some way in an anti-magic zone. Just like a familiar loses it's abilities (but doesn't stop being a familiar)?
That's what I am asking.
Not to be rude, but it really ticks me off when people just say "Ask your GM" in the rules forum.
Wow...just wow.
We say "ask your DM" in the rules section when someone mentions something that just isn't covered conclusively in the rules. Officially, asking the DM is the rule for such a situation.
I did mention it as an archetype because you keep referencing it as if it were a normal oracle curse. Technically, it replaces the Curse ability altogether and is a class trait unique to that archetype. So saying it's (Su) as opposed to all the other oracle curses isn't really a solid comparison.
As DM, easiest solution would be to change/houserule it as an (Ex) ability instead of (Su). You could also have change to normal blood during the encounter with the anti-magic field.
That said, if the setting presents a constant anti-magic field over many of the encounters, it is possible that it is just an inappropriate archetype for the setting. In this case, banning the black blooded oracle might not be entirely unreasonable.
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Well, the 'setting' is Golarion, the very 'setting' that the Black-Blooded curse is designed for. If it it was an inappropriate archetype for the setting then Paizo made a serious mistake designing it in the first place.
The reason the "ask your GM" is one of my pet peeves, is because so many times (even if not in your case) that's the go to answer for so many people... Plus, if the rules are not clear, then that's the reason for discussion... throw ideas off each other, throw interpretations off each other, and maybe, just maybe a developer will weigh in with an opinion or maybe even an official clarification.
Simply saying "Ask your GM" implies that a GM would not seek advice from others about how to interpret rules that are not fully clear, and 'shuts down' all discussion.
"Ask your GM" is redundant. It doesn't need to be said 90% of the time it is.
The oracle class rules are that only a deity can remove the oracle's curse. Why should an archetype be that powerful as to do what a deity cannot do?
As for house ruling it to be Ex instead of Su, again that's not what I'm asking. As a DM I can rule it's a Spell-like ability if I really wanted to. I could remove it from the archetype completely (as I do with Wildblooded) and just make it a normal Ex curse therefore allowing one to be a Dual-Cursed Black Blood/Clouded Vision Oracle..., there are so many things I COULD do.
But, my question was as to what the rules say about a Supernatural ability that shouldn't be able to be removed except by a deity. Greywolf's answer actually made a lot of sense, in that he mentioned that undead don't suddenly turn to dust in an anti-magic zone.. they just can't use any Sp or Su abilities. So, in a way it would make some sense to treat her the same way, although the CURSE part can't be removed would mean she keeps the penalties to dex based skills and negative energy affinity but loses the cold resistance/black blood spray abilities same as any other normal mysteries that are not Ex based.
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Well, the 'setting' is Golarion, the very 'setting' that the Black-Blooded curse is designed for. If it it was an inappropriate archetype for the setting then Paizo made a serious mistake designing it in the first place.
You were mentioning that city in Nex. That was what I meant by setting.
It's like how the hellknight prestige classes are rather inappropriate for the Skull and Shackles per-generated campaign.
Anyway, you want advice on how to handle this one. I'd say it counts as Ex. I would say that harvested black blood doesn't do anything different from normal blood if harvested in an anti-magic field.
For reasoning, I look to domain powers of similar effect:
Darkness Domain
Death's Embrace (Ex): At 8th level, you heal damage instead of taking damage from channeled negative energy. If the channeled negative energy targets undead, you heal hit points just like undead in the area.
Water Domain
Cold Resistance (Ex): At 6th level, you gain resist cold 10. This resistance increases to 20 at 12th level. At 20th level, you gain immunity to cold.
The -4 on dex checks isn't exactly Ex or Su. That's like wearing too much armor.
Last bit is the immunity to, and the generation of, a drug called black blood. The effects of this drug and nothing short of magical. I think it's this little bit that is supernatural. The rest of it is Ex.
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Well, the 'setting' is Golarion, the very 'setting' that the Black-Blooded curse is designed for. If it it was an inappropriate archetype for the setting then Paizo made a serious mistake designing it in the first place.
Did Paizo make a serious mistake in creating a paladin class, then making the module Way of the Wicked? :)
While Golarion is an overarching setting, that doesn't define the setting of a given campaign. There are many 'settings' within Golarion, not all of which are appropriate for all classes or various archetypes.
As to your question, as you've already noted the curse cannot be affected by anything short of divine intervention, so an AMS won't affect it. I believe the actual intent of that rule is to prevent the elimination of the actual curse side (negative effects) through the means of feats or other abilities, while giving the character the upsides of the oracle curse - so I don't feel that the AMS eliminating the positive sides of the curse would necessarily be out of line.
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Well, one Alkenstar isn't in Nex any more than Montreal is in Vermont. Thing is though, yes I mentioned the city, but that's only because it's a constant case of an anti-magic zone (and then only half the city is dead, or so it seems... Skyside still has primal magic... except when they don't... yay Mana Wastes) It still even if you were playing in a setting where there was no such thing as dead magic zones anywhere in the world the spell Anti-Magic Field would still exist.
The as for paladins and Way of the Wicked, Paizo didn't create paladins nor did they write Way of the Wicked. Plus even if they did, it's not a mistake because the paladins are the perfect enemy for a Way of the Wicked game. ^_~
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Well, one Alkenstar isn't in Nex any more than Montreal is in Vermont. Thing is though, yes I mentioned the city, but that's only because it's a constant case of an anti-magic zone (and then only half the city is dead, or so it seems... Skyside still has primal magic... except when they don't... yay Mana Wastes) It still even if you were playing in a setting where there was no such thing as dead magic zones anywhere in the world the spell Anti-Magic Field would still exist.
Completely true, but...
For the majority of pathfinder, game mechanics assume that anti-magic fields are uncommon. If the majority of your setting is under the effects of an anti-magic field, certain classes are rather inappropriate for your setting.
Just like how ocean or flying settings make certain classes inappropriate.
Anyway, black blood curse is an iffy one for any setting. Introduces that black blood into the party, which can create issues by itself. Sure, the oracle PC can't use it, but the party can, or they can sell it, plus it may attract unwanted attention.
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Just because an oracle is a black blood oracle doesn't mean they or the other PCs have access to black blood any more than having a Draconic Bloodline sorcerer means the party suddenly has access to dragon blood.
The blood of a black-blooded oracle is diluted and does not have the properties of full-strength black blood.
But, even ignoring Alkenstar or even saying dead magic zones do not exist in the setting (which still doesn't matter because again, they are both part of the setting... she's not even in Alkenstar anymore so now I wish I hadn't even mentioned that she was from there, and we wouldn't be having this argument... because removing Alkenstar from the equation doesn't negate the question), how common they are doesn't matter when the question is what happens to a Black-Blooded oracle in one. It's a cleric 8, sorcerer/wizard 6 spell to temporarily create one. It was just cast on me, what happens to me?
It's a simple question that relates to ALL settings that don't ban a cleric 8, sorcerer/wizard 6 from using Anti-Magic Field.
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But, even ignoring Alkenstar or even saying dead magic zones do not exist in the setting (which still doesn't matter because again, they are both part of the setting... she's not even in Alkenstar anymore so now I wish I hadn't even mentioned that she was from there, and we wouldn't be having this argument... because removing Alkenstar from the equation doesn't negate the question), how common they are doesn't matter when the question is what happens to a Black-Blooded oracle in one. It's a cleric 8, sorcerer/wizard 6 spell to temporarily create one. It was just cast on me, what happens to me?
It's a simple question that relates to ALL settings that don't ban a cleric 8, sorcerer/wizard 6 from using Anti-Magic Field.
Oh, my mistake. A simple question....
First I should note that while part of this might seem like an advice question, overall it belongs in the rules section I feel because even if you ignore the conceptual stuff of what I'm doing, the question stills stand...
What happens to a Black-blood Oracle in an Anti-Magic zone? Bolded for FAQ purposes.
So, Oracle's Curses are Extraordinary, which means that they don't get negated by a Anti-Magic/Dead Zone. I'm an oracle, I live to Alkenstar I lose all my spells but the curse? I keep it. Sucks to be an oracle in Alkenstar...
BUT what if you are Black Blood Oracle? It's Supernatural.. therefore you lose it...
BUT it cannot be lost by anything short of a deity... does that then count? You don't lose it, or do you lose the benefits but not the negatives?
What I was thinking for the background of this character from Alkenstar who was made a black blood spellscar oracle from a primal magic event (the idea is it was a Sands of Time effect of high CR that instantly killed her... since she died of old age (and in a totally F'ed up unfair way) Charon approached her and made a deal with her... he would restore her youth in return for her soul when she died again. She accepted, and so he brought her back and neither she nor the friend she was with realizes anything happened at all because the 'death' and 'talk' with Charon was instantaneous to them... and he also made her a black-blood oracle in a kind of half-undeadesque effect... then the spellscar, cause hey primal magic killed her, so why not?) is after 24 hours you fall into a coma and "die"... as the black blood in your veins starts to kill you because you are no longer immune. Eventually you really will die, if nothing else cause you are not eating or drinking and no amount of healing is going to make you better... cause you're in an anti-magic zone...
When you return to a magic friendly area then you "come back to life" oooh it's a miracle! No, you weren't really dead, everyone just thinks you were... :P
So, what do you think of this scenario, or what other things do you think should happen since it's Supernatural unlike every other Oracle's Curse?
So, simple answer is, "Ask the DM."
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Personally, I would rule that it is unaffected unless the AMF was cast by another deity, and even then probably not. RAW it would go away as an SU, but that doesn't feel like RAI to me; so that's my 10cp
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I like the idea that it surpresses the immunity to the black blood, and automatically gives the optical the weaker effect of his/her blood.
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I like the idea that it surpresses the immunity to the black blood, and automatically gives the optical the weaker effect of his/her blood.
You reminded me, that's sort of how I ended up doing it. Basically, she had none of the benefits, just the bad parts of the curse, which was a big reason she left home. Staying in Alkenstar was just asking for being deathly ill constantly.
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So, since it's been awhile and I never did get many opinions other than "Ask your DM" arguments, anyone else have an opinion on this?
Been thinking on this one.
As written, I think curse would be suppressed. Though, it is very notable that there are oracle things which rely on the "oracle's curse" and these would not affect the curse of black blood Su.
For example, the Gnome's Favored Class bonus of "Add +1/2 to the oracle's level for the purpose of determining the effects of the oracle's curse ability." would not apply to the Curse of Black Blood Su.
Spells like "Oracle's Burden" are also ineligible for the Curse of Black Blood Su, as written.
Plus, it's not like the Oracle is a very useful class while within an anti-magic field.
Not to mention that the Oracle would "suddenly" start taking damage from negative energy and healing from positive energy. It would certainly be surprising at best. While even suppressed, the curse is limiting to the Oracle Class.
So, I think the penalties of the curse being Su are balanced well enough as written.
I will note that the Black Blooded Oracle archetype is described as being obtainable by exposure to the Mana Wastes, which are known for their Magic Dead Zones. So the curse being suppressed within the Mana Wastes does seem like a reasonably intended function. You could even describe the Curse as withdrawal symptoms for leaving the magic dead zones, rather than something suppressed by the dead zones.
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I will note that the Black Blooded Oracle archetype is described as being obtainable by exposure to the Mana Wastes, which are known for their Magic Dead Zones. So the curse being suppressed within the Mana Wastes does seem like a reasonably intended function. You could even describe the Curse as withdrawal symptoms for leaving the magic dead zones, rather than something suppressed by the dead zones.
OOoh, I kinda like that idea actually... Especially since I already decided it was a primal storm that made her black-blooded. :)