How can i subtly convince my players to like the bosses for my current adventure?

[ALF maniac]

This question regards story more than it does mechanics.
I am really new to GMing. In fact, I'm relatively new to table top rpg's. I've played been part of three adventures, each of which at level 2. As far as GMing, I've been running my campaign for a little while now, and all of my players seem to enjoying themselves. They end up laughing after every session, with stories they end up sharing with our other friends. All of my seven players characters have already developed some sort of a relationship which each of the other ones.

My players are also all very good on doing what their player would do. Metagaming hasn't been an issue yet, and I've been able to hook all of their characters into being part of a group. That being said, I'm a little stumped on how to get my players to end up liking the two main bosses of their adventure.

Let me start off by laying out the story. The world, the campaign and the adventures are all made up by me. I have the time to do such a thing, and I feel that with a setting that I created, I can allow my players more freedom in their action

The back story of the universe (summarized) goes like this. Essentially, there was a race that existed before any other race. They were powerful, and had an obsession for knowledge and control. They were called the kaanite. They had eventually grown so powerful, they forced heaven and hell (which are worlds with their own gods and races such as dragons, angels, demi-gods, and demons) to completely disconnect from this world. They were in such a rush, they ended up leaving much of their own kind behind. This invoked the rage of the worlds gods Against the kaanites. Without mercy, they slaughter the Kaanite, with the aid of the four goddesses born to protect the world. Whatever kaanite that were left hid from the gods wit special magic and went into crystalized hibernation. The two gods ended up fighting about what to do with the world. one wanted it's destruction, the other it's protection. Basically, the one who wanted to protect the earth won, banishing her brother, creating new, weaker races, to populate the world. Her wounds from the battle were too great, and she was forced to take up mortal form and hibernate.

Now, the world has grown and is essentially godless. Some kaanites are waking from their slumber, seeing a godless world that is ripe for the taking. They are still weak and they need proxies. After all, they are each others enemy and don't want to risk head on head battle.

Fast forward a few years, you two sisters (these two will later be the bosses of the adventure). They are human, but way up in their ancestral tree are origins of angels and demons. Powerful otherworldly magic runs through their veins. This, however, makes them somewhat sensitive to powerful magic.
Growing up, the sisters witnessed much pain and suffering. Eventually becoming aware of their powers as they grew up, they wanted to become powerful enough to rid the world of evil intent. They hoped to eventually find a magic that could destroy ill intent. While seemingly impossible, they were hopeful. At the ages of ten and 8, they began adventuring. The gained many allies and made a name for themselves.

Eventually, they discovered a map that mapped out many hidden ruins that contained old and powerful magic. They set up an expedition group and immediately set off to explore. From ruin to ruin, the discovered many powerful magics, but nothing that could help accomplish what they wanted. Then, they stumbled upon a particular ruin running heavy with magic. Unbeknownst to them, an ancient and powerful kaanite has recently awoken in the bowels of the ruins, waiting for adventurers to stumble upon his layer. The sisters and their party do just that, and end up getting stuck in a battle between the kaanite. However, the party of 25 don't stand a chance against the Powerful being. He uses his magic to corrupt the minds of the expedition leader, gaining control over 6 of them, and killing 17 of them. To his surprise, the twins weren't affected by his magic. He began to see they could be useful pawns, but he had to corrupt their minds. He convinced the two sisters that he was on a path of righteousness and there was no magic to end evil. Evil had to be slain. Sinners had to be slain. That was the only way to rid the world of evil. They craved the power to end evil. So they submitted, allowing him to corrupt their mind.

Now, fast forward about four years. My party has united their causes, and is approached by a man who had dropped out of the expedition group early due to an injury. The sisters were good friends of his, and promised to come back to the town they left him in within the next year. He waited and waited, but they never came back. He began to worry. He's sent word to mercenaries from nearby cities, but no one ever show's up. He talks to the adventurers and requests their aid in finding his friends. The party has accepted, and been given a map that shows the locations of the ruins that the sisters were heading to. They will travel from ruin to ruin, discovering the history of their world, and eventually reach the sisters

And that's what I have so far.
I know my players, and I know that they like complicated personalities. People aren't evil to be evil. People aren't good to be good. What defines them is how they see the world.
My players also like a dark souls-y kind of vibe. Even when you NEED to kill someone, It can make you feel like garbage.

If they win the battle with the two sisters (in the lair of the kaanite) They corruption will creep out of the sisters and they will be left with the remorse of their actions. (by this time, they'll have been responsible for deaths of many innocents). What happens here depends on the choices of the Pc's. Maybe the choose to execute the sisters. Or spare their lives, or decide to tie them up and take them to jail. Or maybe comfort them. Or even something that I wouldn't have even thought of. However, regardless of what happens, The older sister will die. If they don't decide to finish the sisters off, the older sister will attempt to kill herself with her weapon. The party can convince her that her life is worhth keeping, in which she will give a smile before the kaanite appears behind her and kills her.

Honestly, though, I don't care what the Pc's do. In essence, it's their game and they should be able to do what they want. I don't want to brainwash them into keeping the sisters alive. But I want them to realize that, regardless of their choice, I want them to feel conflicted. These are two people who were corrupted by the power they craved. They didn't have bad intentions, they were just misdirected. I want them to be both loved and hated by the party.

Now, the party will have a reason to hate the sisters. Soon, the town they are staying in will be raided by mind controlled orcs, who are being given orders by the sisters. Many innocents will die. The party will find that sisters killed off many adventurers to keep them from interferring with their plans. They decided to execute innocent people because of their "sins." I know this will stir the party up. Son now with the question at hand.

How do I get my players to like the two bosses, without forcing them?

For reference on my players, I'll give share the caracters

-Velstadt; A human LG paladin who, after witnessing his family slaughtered by orcs, dedicated himself to the order to spread goodness. He is known to place goodness above law, though upholds both with an iron fist. Regardless of their flaws, he doesn't particularly dislike anyone in the party except for his brother, Raime. He is generally level headed, and will very rarely kill. He would rather be diplomatic, or even occasionally lie, to accomplish something.

-Raime; A human CG fighter/wizard who, after witnessing his family slaughtered by orcs, followed the path of the dark arts to bring goodness to world. As far as he sees it, law does nothing to uphold justice. He takes it in his own hands. He cares deeply for his brother, though his brother is still somewhat angry at him. His brother disowned him after the orc raid against there hometown when Raime left Velstadt in his time of need so that he could pursue magic. He is led entirely by his goodness. He is quick to fight to stand up for others, even when it's not necessary. He hates people who hurt others for pleasure.

-Han Rahl; A half-elf CN rogue who is filled with regret. He used to be a leader of a gang, ruling the underworld of his city without mercy. Eventually, however, he felt the need to move on from that life. He left and formed a family outside the city. However, his enemies saw this as a weakness and set his home ablaze. He lost his entire family. He left the city setting up connections around the continent to gain the power to completely destroy his enemy from the inside out. He is generally quick to act. Sometimes he puts the mission ahead of the lives of his allies, which has gained him some infamy within the group. However, he always comes through to save the day. He is sort of the unnamed leader of the group.

-Talon; A Drow CG rogue who is an assassin. He was born into a group of Drow who allied with a nearby human city. During a war, the racist general of the city ordered his men to pillage his underground village. His family were slaughtered. He vowed that he would train to become powerful enough to end the corruption in any government. He is a good friend of Storkbane. He is good at planning, and generally keeps level headed. Though, sometimes he loses his cool dealing with injustice. He believes in helping those in need.

-Storkbane; A N human fighter. When young, he was thrown into a river when he was a baby, left to die. Luckily enough, he was found by a duke who raised him as his own. He trained in combat. However, Storkbane's experience as a baby started appearing to him in dreams, haunting him. He became disconnected from his adoptive family, and left home for no real reason. He is a wild card, acting on a whim. He does what sounds like a good idea. He doesn't let his emotion get in the way of anything. Friend talon.

Velcron; A Drow CN sorcerer (Dragon bloodline). He was born to a group of Drow that lived way up in the mountains where no light shined. They had a pact with a group of nearby dragons. One day, they waged war against the dragons, resulting in their demise. However, they was a baby amongst the rubble. The dragon's took pity on him, and raised him as their own. Eventually, powerful kingdom invaded their lands, slaying all the dragons. They "rescued" Velcron, who was in shock. From then on, he traveled using magic the dragons instilled into him to make a living. He hates law and order. Especially the military. He is extremely loyal to friends, and would gladly sacrifice his life for them. He doesn't feel the same for innocents.

Strider; The most recent member of the group, he just joined by request of the sisters's friend. He was born with illness, and was to die an early death. His father died, leaving his mother to care for him. His mother, desperate, went to the elves for the magic to give him long life. The had an amulet that they gave to him, curing his illness and granting him long life. He grow up a happy life, which soon turned grim. He had the lifespan of an elf. He had to watch as his mother grew old and died. He now lives his life as a hand for hire, hoping that he might soon die from the blade. I haven't fully panned out his character since I haven't played with him much, but I believe he is driven by adventure.

Aside from the original question, if you guys have suggestions on making this game more enjoyable for my players, I'm completely open to suggestions :D

p.s. I apologize if this is too long. I felt the background info necessary. Thanks in advanced for any help given!

[Scythia]

Have the person who hires the party share a personal experience of a time that the sisters helped him or saved his child. That'll begin the party with a positive first impression.

Places that the now corrupted sisters have not attacked might still offer a reminiscence of their good deeds or kind words. If the party sees this as a search and rescue mission for well liked heroes, it will be all the more jarring when they discover the sisters in their current state. It could even inspire a "you're better than this" speech if you have any particularly dramatic players.

As a final touch, once they're defeated don't have then try to make any excuses. The realization of their wrongs would likely overwhelm any feelings of self justification. The sudden shift from wild eyed fanatic to remorseful person just now seeing innocent blood on their hands can be explanation enough.

[Anguish]

Sorry, but TL;DR. Just don't have the time for it at the moment.

That said - and I get it that this may not help due to your first novel - but the best way is simply to have the enemy be a friend. As in, prior involvement is the only real way to convince players that an NPC is innocent. If they rescue someone, that someone is "safe". Otherwise, players will be very, very canny about distrusting.

[Cpt_kirstov]

Are you asking about having the players like the bosses, or the PCs?

If you're asking about the players, make their builds tough, but flavourful. Remember, most fights last less than 8 rounds. Depending on the level, you'll probably have room to use a flavourful feat or two.

Another thing. If you haven't built the sisters.... Maybe add some stuff from the occult adventures playtest? Looks like you're using mostly core, so some of these things might 'break' their ideas of what is possible... This could make them memorable encounters....

[Eltacolibre]

Quite frankly you can write down history that happened 1000 years ago and elaborate biography for your npcs...sometime your players will enjoy a npc more than another or even not pay attention to a npc with a background story and the likes. I would recommend to check PAX DM Q&A videos or Spoony stuffs, they are generic advice about dming which should come in handy.

[Ratguard]

One thing that I have found in my games, and I cannot stress enough. Is humanizing a villain can be a great asset for getting players to remember, and reminisce, about the villains.

Seeing what you have written up, it would be an interesting technique to make them seem remorseful before a fight, such as "The Youngest of the sisters looks over to you as her sister gloats over being chosen as the divine heralds of their God, you almost don't catch it. But she appears to be mouthing something to you (Sense Motive Check!) Okay, with that roll, you can determine that she is mouthing "I'm Sorry". And she draws a wicked curved knife. Before going into a battle stance."

Or other such things, don't paint them all Black. THey genuinely believe that they are helping a good God, their lair/temple should be adorned in bright colors. And their cultists should seem righteous and just. All the while dropping hints that not all is well. This can lead to the Sisters being more than just another crazed cult trying to end the world. It really drives home the point, that they believe what they are doing, is the right and just thing.

[Ashiel]

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At the ages of ten and 8, they began adventuring. The gained many allies and made a name for themselves.

This would be kind of verisimilitude shattering for me. :|

Quote:

However, regardless of what happens, The older sister will die. If they don't decide to finish the sisters off, the older sister will attempt to kill herself with her weapon. The party can convince her that her life is worhth keeping, in which she will give a smile before the kaanite appears behind her and kills her.

Bummer. Why does it even matter if you bring this up then, if the PCs have no real influence on it?

Quote:

Honestly, though, I don't care what the Pc's do. In essence, it's their game and they should be able to do what they want. I don't want to brainwash them into keeping the sisters alive. But I want them to realize that, regardless of their choice, I want them to feel conflicted. These are two people who were corrupted by the power they craved. They didn't have bad intentions, they were just misdirected. I want them to be both loved and hated by the party.

Let the characters be people with real virtues and vices. Also not being remorseless monsters while being bad guys is a big step if you want the PCs to meet them post-villainy, or knowing them pre-villainy if they're going to cross the moral event horizon.

If the PCs encounter them in a fight before anything, having them show positive emotions (such as protectiveness over each other) or restraint when fighting the PCs (such as attacking nonlethally when a chance to kill is obvious, or stabilizing a downed PC, etc) can give some players reason to hesitate in outright ending them.

However one must remember that the PCs only see what they see, so they will have no in character knowledge about the sisters and/or their motivations or their transformation and you've already deemed that at least 50% of them are going to die no matter what the PCs do, so you're not really going to give the PCs much of a chance to get to know or discover them post-combat.

[ALF maniac]

wow guys, I really appreciate all the feedback. I honestly didn't expect this much of it :D I will definitely be coming back to these forums more often. I will certainly take all of this advice when setting up the boss battle. Thank you all!

Cpt_kirstov, I was referring to getting both my players and their characters to understand that these sisters are, at their heart, doing what they believe is right. However, I really appreciate the building advice. I've been having trouble building these two co-bosses.

[Petty Alchemy]

Gonna echo what others have said, they need to do good things that PCs care about. Maybe they didn't directly help the PCs, but they helped a town the PCs care about. Or they helped a PC's parents, who spoke fondly of them afterwards. Or someone the PCs love/trust, loves/trusts the sisters.

[The Human Diversion]

Present the enemies as benefactors.

I ran a campaign where the contact from the Lawful Good church was really a Succubus and the PCs never did find out about her, she just kept manipulating things behind the scenes using information she gathered in person. Nothing hurts quite so much as learning the person who's been sending you on all these quests and missions is the person who's been pulling the strings the whole time. Was she sending you to your death? Using you for more subtle machinations? Just toying with you?