Flanking with Reach

[Shezhiquan]

RAW, is a character required to occupy a square in order to flank from it? Or do you flank with reach weapons even if you do not personally occupy the square necessary to flank, as long as you threaten that square?

[Lakesidefantasy]

I'm not a polearm master but I play one in Pathfinder Society. The polearm master fighter archetype in the Advanced Player's Guide has this feature:

Flexible Flanker (Ex): At 9th level, a polearm master may choose any square adjacent to him and treat that square as his location for determining who he is flanking, even if that square is occupied by a creature, object, or solid barrier. This ability replaces weapon training 2.

I believe your character must occupy a square in a direct line across from another character in order to form a flank.

[arcanine]

Shezhiquan wrote:

RAW, is a character required to occupy a square in order to flank from it? Or do you flank with reach weapons even if you do not personally occupy the square necessary to flank, as long as you threaten that square?

yep you do, if they move through the square you threaten. they will provoke an AOO. with a reach weapon you threaten the squares around you.

[Blakmane]

You can, however, flank with reach - as long as you can still draw a direct line through the squares you actually occupy.

Look at the example picture.

I know this is a pretty tame question... but the rulebook shows you the solution very clearly. Google is your friend.

[Shezhiquan]

I was just wondering because RAW states:

"When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner."

I've read THIS thread:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ofso?Flanking-with-a-Reach-weapon

which says you use the rules for Reach weapons which say you threaten the squares

but the RAW also states:
"When in doubt about whether two characters flank an opponent in the middle, trace an imaginary line between the two attackers' centers. If the line passes through opposite borders of the opponent's space (including corners of those borders), then the opponent is flanked."

This contradicts the first statement which says "If your opponent is *THREATENED* by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner" (emphasis added by me), which would reasonably include reach weapons (or large creatures with extended natural reach).

[Lakesidefantasy]

Sometimes an ally may be in a flanking position without actually threatening your opponent. Such as when they are unarmed or armed with a range weapon.

[Blakmane]

You could also parse the first sentence like this:

"When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if another enemy character or creature on an opposite border or opposite corner also threatens that opponent"

Squares you threaten do not themselves threaten. You threaten those squares. Thus, you must still be opposite another creature to flank. In order to determine flanking:

a) do I threaten my opponent?

b) is there a character or creature opposite my opponent who also threatens my opponent?

if a) and b) are true, then you flank.

[Kazaan]

Shezhiquan wrote:

This contradicts the first statement which says "If your opponent is *THREATENED* by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner" (emphasis added by me), which would reasonably include reach weapons (or large creatures with extended natural reach).

There's no contradiction. If the two characters both threaten an enemy, you draw the line from middle to middle to determine if they also flank. It's possible to threaten without flanking, but it isn't possible to flank without threatening. The method you quoted presumes that the characters in question are already in a position to threaten the same opponent.

#&#
#@#
##&

The above two characters '&' do not flank opponent '@' because, even though they both threaten, the line from the middle of each doesn't pass through opposite borders at all.

#####
##&##
##@##
#####
##&##

The above two characters '&', however, do flank if the one spaced 10' away has a reach weapon. You already know they threaten so you use the line method to determine if, in addition, they also flank. The line passes through opposite borders, thus they flank. In fact, since it specifies that the corner of a border counts, even the below configuration would be able to flank:

#####
##&##
##@##
#####
#&###

If you draw a line between the two '&' characters, presuming they both threaten, the line passes through the top border and the corner of the bottom border. Since these are opposite borders, this does count as flanking.