Hi there! I've just registered (found this forum really interesting, and people writing on it really aknowledged [i think i'm doing some synthax mistakes, am sorry, i'm italian T_T]) and i come out with an help request :D!!
I'm just starting to play Kingmaker (Campaign will start tomorrow), and we're 6 players:
- Human Paladin
- Human Alchemist (more focused on knowledge skills)
- Unknown Character (probably a caster)
- Unknown Character
- Unknown Character
- Me
The GM was looking for a roguish character (to find traps and unlock locked doors lol) so i proposed (my bad, i know...never played rogue) to do so.
Now, i didnt want to play "the classic rogue" (i call classic rogue, the rogue my mates always play), but was thinking on using dirty trick, steal (maybe with a whip?), or something non-classic, but still being useful(here comes the hardest...i'm not able to create a character without being unuseful :S).
So i hope someone could help creating a "Roguish Character" (That doesn't means rogue, i'm open on suggestions) if possible also useful.
Level Start is 1, and i've not decided the race (so no matter which).
Thanks in advance to who will help!
BB
thanks for the advice, i will look into asking this! I forgot GM allowed us only on:
-CORE RULEBOOK
-ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE
-ULTIMATE COMBAT
-ULTIMATE MAGIC
:(
okk i read more on "Roguish Qualities" just to be aknowledged on what makes rogue so essential...
I found a thread here on the forum where the rogue is valuated kinda unuseful, so i surfed the web and found more about traps: magic traps could be disabled only with a disable device check from a character able to find traps...
so which classes have that quality? Is it possible to get that quality using the spell for trapfinding? If yes then i should consider all classes being able to use magic device (just buying the scroll of that spell) am i right?
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Here are some classes that can disarm magical traps, either with trapfinding or some other ability:
1st level rogue (not all archetypes have it)
3rd level urban ranger
1st level trapper ranger
1st level crypt breaker alchemist
2nd level detective bard
2nd level archivist bard
6th level archaeologist bard
1st level sandman bard
Paizo recently added a trait that would allow you to do disarm magic traps, but that's probably not on your permitted list.
A Guide Trapper Ranger is pretty great, I highly recommend it if you don't want to deal with spellcasting.
Urban Ranger is also pretty awesome.
Ninjas are effective roguish characters, but don't have any special magic-trap-disarmament skills.
If you're willing to dip into trapper ranger or similar, it could work.
Alternatively, you can go without the ability to disarm magic traps. Usually spotting the trap and then using your intelligence to trigger it from a distance / disable it with magic is sufficient.
This just requires good Perception skill (and remembering to search).
nice advices, i really appreciated those!
nice idea matthew, i could play a caster-like PC, but will i be pretty sure that my magic will disable almost any kind of trap?
Hey, OP, a couple of things:
1. It's not that Rogues are crap, it's that everyone else got their tricks without Rogues getting any cool stuff for themselves, except for some very specific abilities that a beginner should not consider using, so scratch it.
2. The Ranger and Bards alternatives are very good. Give them a look. Guide Trapper is something I've played and enjoyed. I've played with Archivist and Archaeologist Bards, both pulled their weight well - Archivist being more skill based and telling us everything about creatures, while the Archaeologist was more of a Rogue with spells.
Any of those are good choices.
Here are some classes that can disarm magical traps, either with trapfinding or some other ability:
1st level rogue (not all archetypes have it)
3rd level urban ranger
1st level trapper ranger
1st level crypt breaker alchemist
2nd level detective bard
2nd level archivist bard
6th level archaeologist bard
1st level sandman bardPaizo recently added a trait that would allow you to do disarm magic traps, but that's probably not on your permitted list.
2nd level Terracota Monk plz.
You could take one level of Rogue or similar, and then go full Wizard? That way you get the rogue's class skills and trapfinding, and are only one caster level behind a full wizard. Make use of spells like Invisibility to be sneaky when needed. Consider taking a skill focus feat to keep up with a rogue's abilities. Or take a second level of Rogue to gain the Trap Spotter trick. Or a third level of Rogue and go for the Arcane Trickster prestige class, though by this time your spellcasting is seriously compromised and you may have a 'bad at martial skills, bad at magic' PC.
Disarming traps without using 'Disable Device':
Firstly, I enjoy doing this. Traps are boring when reduced to a dice roll.
Finding the traps is the most important thing - every party needs a scout with good Perception.
Higher level wizards can bypass most traps with Dimension Door.
Magic traps can usually be disabled by Dispel Magic.
Spells that allow you to create passages around traps are also useful. (Stone Shape, for example, if your GM will allow it.)
Traps can be triggered remotely with Summon Monster 1. (I also like Summon Monster 2, which has more intelligent creatures that you can learn to talk to, ask to open doors, etc.)
Although if you can trigger a trap with a summoned monster, throwing a rock at it may also work.
Don't forget to carry emergency scrolls for these abilities.
Having a guy with lots of hit points and a healer can solve a lot of problems.
Some common types of trap:
(1) Magic Alarm. Triggering this with a summoned monster is not a great idea. Going around it or dispelling it are the alternatives. Or simply take advantage of the fact that you know you're going to be attacked to buff up the party and prepare to ambush your attackers.
(2) Collapsing ceiling. Triggering it may block off passages (but usually doesn't) or alert enemies so make sure you've eliminated all possible threats first.
(3) Concealed pit trap. Having revealed it, you still need a way of crossing the pit. Remember that as a rogue-substitute you should always make sure the party has ropes, pitons, ten foot poles and other mundane items.
(4) Resetting magic damage trap. For example, an area of corridor that zaps you with lightning every time you pass. A summoned creature will reveal it but it may remain dangerous. Resist Energy will help here. If you can work out the trigger (such as a floor panel) you might be able to avoid that.
(5) Poison needles and similar. Whenever you find a lock, check the lock for traps. Mundane Disable Device skill should work here. If not, there are good anti-poison spells.
2nd level Terracota Monk plz.
I was trying to restrict my list to archetypes available in the core rulebooks mentioned. (I should have removed Crypt Breaker Alchemist.)
thanks again for advices, things are becoming more clear in my mind about my PC.
I saw you always mention wizard, and i'm almost pretty sure that i can do the same with Witch, Summoner, Cleric, Sorcerer and Oracle, but what about the Magus? Is there a way to do the Roguish-Job with that class?
The Magus gets the important utility spells later than the wizard, and has no very relevant class skills. I'd say... maybe with a dip?
An Archeologist Bard is one of the best rouge replacements in the game. Not only can they do everything a rouge can except sneak attack, they actually do it better. Their spell list complements and enhances their abilities to the point the poor rouge starts to look like a NPC class.
They do have to wait until 6th level to disarm magical traps but that is not as big as a problem as you might think. For the most part magic traps below that level are not really that much of a problem. The Archeologist Bard can still find them, they just can’t disable them. Actually since they have access to detect magic they are actually better at finding them at 1st level than the rouge. Most of the time low level magic traps simply do damage and do not reset themselves. This means even if they can’t be disarmed they can be triggered from a safe distance. After 6th level the Archeologist Bard is actually better at dealing with magical traps. At this point they have access to dispel magic so even if they can’t disarm the trap they can always dispel it.
They also get access to rogue talents, just latter and fewer of them. This is not really a problem because there are only a few decent rogue talents. Pick up trap spotter and fast stealth and that covers most of what you need. Most of the other talents are so circumstance or limited that they are not worth it. This is often one of the reasons rouges are considered weaker than any other class.
If an Archeologist Bard is careful with his spell he does not need much in CHA. Many of the most useful bard spells are buff or utility spells. By avoiding spells that allow a save you only need a CHA high enough to cast your spells. A couple of spells that are considered essential for the “Thief” are Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Invisibility, Heroism, and Dispel Magic. Bards get early access to Heroism and it stacks with Archeologist Luck for an incredible bonus to just about everything.
Play a half elf or other class that gets extra rounds of performance as a favored class bonus. Pick up Lingering performance to triple your rounds of Archeologist Luck. If traits are allowed pick up Fate’s Favored for an Extra +1. Criminal will give you disable device as a class skill so is normally your second trait. Even without it being a class skill you still get the bonus and can still put ranks into it.
Put a single point into every knowledge skill, and at 6th level you can get a bonus of +12 by using Archeologist Luck combined with Heroism. You will also have Lore Master so can take 10, and once a day can take 20 with a standard action. This is going to step on the toes of the knowledge focused alchemist.
lets definite "the dip" :3 how many levels should i "waste" in?
Archelogist seems nice, btw i dont need to take "the face role" (we've a paladin, think he will do that) nor take "the acknowledged man" (alchemist is focusing there...i dont want to steal his role, i'm not that kind of player)
Okk, i was looking for a roguish char, but now things have changed 'cause the GM said we don't actually need it: means we could have not in the party, but also means that someone else definite his char and so this is the situation
-Human Paladin
-Human Alchemist [Mindchemist] (Mr. Knowledge Man)
-X Sorcerer(Or Wizard) that will go in Arcane Trickster
-Unknown
-Unknown
-Me finally free 100% to choose
So here i am, looking for advice on what to play; i want to say i will not play: Ranger(or arch of that), just because i don't like that class.
First "classes"(maybe i should say "roles" or "playing styles" i was thinking of:
- Enchantement-Bender (which class better to do so? I'm lost with that)
- Invocation-Bender (maybe sorcerer?)
- Witch
- Magus (I read about Kingmaker in a post on the forum and seems most of encounters are in open field...does that make the magus a non-worth choice?)
I'm completely open to other ideas, and i'm really in your hands (Yes, yours willing mate!)