Moonlight Stalker / Blink


Rules Questions

Sovereign Court

As the title says - I've been toying with different ways to make a Moonlight Stalker build work consistently. A cloak of minor displacement is an obvious choice - but it uses up the shoulders slot and doesn't work against True Seeting.

I was considering a Ring of Blinking combined with a Headband of Ninjutsu so that sneak attacks would still work despite the 20% miss chance. Does Blink count as concealment such that Moonlight Stalker would work? (It says just 50% miss chance - but the spell description actually mentions 20% concealment for those who can strike ethereal creatures - implying that some of the 50% is also concealment.)

The Exchange

Nope. Blink is about you being there or on the ethereal plane. You are going back and forth really fast.


Jeff Morse wrote:
Nope. Blink is about you being there or on the ethereal plane. You are going back and forth really fast.

On the other hand, the text of Blink says:

Blink wrote:
Physical attacks against you have a 50% miss chance, and the Blind-Fight feat doesn't help opponents, since you're ethereal and not merely invisible. If the attack is capable of striking ethereal creatures, the miss chance is only 20% (for concealment).

Emphasis mine.

The subject is "not merely invisible", but not fully visible either, otherwise there would not be a miss chance due to concealment, and the text of the spell refers other times to the subject being only partly visible. In conclusion yes, it works.

Note though, that your attacks also have a 20% miss chance, and that is not due to concealment but due to you being ethereal:

Blink wrote:
If the attacker can see invisible creatures, the miss chance is also only 20%. (For an attacker who can both see and strike ethereal creatures, there is no miss chance.) Likewise, your own attacks have a 20% miss chance, since you sometimes go ethereal just as you are about to strike.

Note the "likewise" linking the two sentences.

Unless you find a way to overcome this non-concealment miss chance, I would not consider this build as "working consistently". But then again, I am not very lucky with dice :)

Sovereign Court

EldritchBoar wrote:


Note though, that your attacks also have a 20% miss chance, and that is not due to concealment but due to you being ethereal:

So you don't think you'd even need the Headband of Ninjutsu to apply your sneak attack? Interesting. (Not that it'd be a bad purchase anyway.)

EldritchBoar wrote:
Unless you find a way to overcome this non-concealment miss chance, I would not consider this build as "working consistently". But then again, I am not very lucky with dice :)

Meh - in terms of absolute miss chance - them being flatfooted from Moonlight Stalker Feint along with the additional +2 to hit from the base Moonlight Stalker feat should more than cancel out a 20% miss chance. Even moreso if you get the extra +2 insight bonus from the Headband of Ninjutsu.


Charon's Little Helper wrote:
EldritchBoar wrote:


Note though, that your attacks also have a 20% miss chance, and that is not due to concealment but due to you being ethereal:
So you don't think you'd even need the Headband of Ninjutsu to apply your sneak attack? Interesting. (Not that it'd be a bad purchase anyway.)

Exactly.

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
EldritchBoar wrote:
Unless you find a way to overcome this non-concealment miss chance, I would not consider this build as "working consistently". But then again, I am not very lucky with dice :)
Meh - in terms of absolute miss chance - them being flatfooted from Moonlight Stalker Feint along with the additional +2 to hit from the base Moonlight Stalker feat should more than cancel out a 20% miss chance. Even moreso if you get the extra +2 insight bonus from the Headband of Ninjutsu.

Well, if your attack bonus is high enough, so assuming you hit always except on natural 1s, I suppose missing once every five strikes is not that bad. And if enemies are too hard to hit, you can always turn off the ring.

Scarab Sages

Would a ghost touch weapon allow you to attack from blink without the 20% miss chance from being ethereal?

Sovereign Court

Imbicatus wrote:
Would a ghost touch weapon allow you to attack from blink without the 20% miss chance from being ethereal?

Well - does ghost touch work with ethereal? I thought it was incorporeal only. (Though the differences there have always been wonky to me - so take that with a big grain of salt.)


Imbicatus wrote:
Would a ghost touch weapon allow you to attack from blink without the 20% miss chance from being ethereal?

Nope.

Ghost touch weapons only affect incorporeal creatures. The confusion here is due to the fact that an etheral and incorporeal creatures have much in common mechanically, but if you read their descriptions there are no cross-references. Basically, an incorporeal creature is here, but has no physical body (like a ghost), whereas an etheral creature is on another plane and its interaction with the material plane is mostly limited to sight and hearing within 60 feet.


"A ghost touch weapon deals damage normally against incorporeal creatures, regardless of its bonus. An incorporeal creature's 50% reduction in damage from corporeal sources does not apply to attacks made against it with ghost touch weapons. The weapon can be picked up and moved by an incorporeal creature at any time. A manifesting ghost can wield the weapon against corporeal foes. Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as both corporeal or incorporeal. "

I'm pretty sure you can hit a blinking character with a ghost touch weapon. I have never seen it done any other way.

So the converse should be true.

Sovereign Court

sunbeam wrote:

I'm pretty sure you can hit a blinking character with a ghost touch weapon. I have never seen it done any other way.

So the converse should be true.

But the blinking character isn't incorporeal at all. They're half ethereal.


Phase Locking Weapon


A couple more discussions on ghost touch + blink here and here.

Kchaka wrote:
Phase Locking Weapon

How would this allow a blinking character to bypass the 20% miss chance from being ethereal?

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