Brawler 10 or Brawler 8 / MoMS 2? (Slight Spoilers)

[Grimserver]

So I'm playing a dwarven brawler in a Skulls and Shackles game and am currently at lvl 2. I came in a little late to the party (lvl 2) and have around 150gp to my name

Spoiler:

apparently you get your stuff taken on the first ship

but that isn't much of an issue since my fists and beard are weapons in their own right. As of this moment my stats/feats are as follows (including racial bonuses/penalties):

str:16
dex:15
con:16
int:12
wis:15
cha:10
(Note that this was rolled for, not point buy)

Feats: Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike, Dodge.

Now to my question. Is it worth it to take a 2 level dip in Monk of Many Styles to pick up 2 styles and have them both up, or should I just go straight brawler. I've heard of good things by stacking dragon style/pummeling style/pummeling charge, and since I am (usually) the only true melee in the group crane style would get my ac to 21. However I'm not sure style feats are worth losing 1 BAB and late access to brawlers furry (improved twf) and martial flexibility (swift).

Any thoughts?

[LoneKnave]

Depending on what you want to do, it's absolutely worth it. However, you can already have Pummeling Charge "naturally" by high level, and you can replace Dragon Style with Horn of the cryosphinx (though, I think they also stack, so that's even better).

Dodge is really not worth it, grab Pummeling style instead at lvl2, and then grab pummeling charge with 1 level of MoMS imo at 3.

[Fruian Thistlefoot]

Skulls and Shackles has the highest amount of Humanoid enemies. Take advantage of that and focus on a combat maneuver. Trip, Disarm, or Grapple. My recommendation is trip build. Because with a Brawler if your already doing Trip you can Flexibility into disarm and dirty tricks.

I do personally like the 2 level of MoMS monk dip. You loose BaB but gain so much in saves, AC, evasion, and STUNNING FIST.

Here is my current Brawler monk I am running in a side adventure.

Brawler Multi-class:

Feats:
Human- Combat expertise
Brawler 1- Improved Trip
Brawler 2-Combat Reflexes
brawler 2/MoMS Monk 1- Dragon Style and Pummeling style
Brawler 2/monk 2- Pummeling Charge
Brawler 3/monk 2- Vicious Stomp
Brawler 5/monk 2- Dragon Ferocity and Greater Trip

I typically will Flexibility in Pummeling Bully and Charge in. On the first hit I get a free action trip which if it lands I get a Vicious stomp and Greater trip trigger. The last parts of my flurry are now done on a prone target increasing my chances to hit. At level 7 I can get in 5 hits with my Pummeling Charge combo...6 if they provoke standing up or I'm hasted...7 if both =).

A few things to think about...Dragon style verse Horn of the cryosphinx
Dragon style is superior as it gives you saves bonus and the ability to ignore difficult terrain. Taking Dragon ferocity also gives you the ability to charge through allies when they take up space. The horn can come later by all means But I tend to like the Dragon style line. Oh don't forget with dragon ferocity that you can Flexibility in Elemental Fist for those creatures you run across with regeneration or some elemental weakness. Adds for a ace in the hole.

[Grimserver]

alright, great advice so far. I'll probably go for a 2 level dip in MoMS then. One thing I have to ask though, is it worth it to get crane style? Whats been recommended is very offensive, but I am the only melee character in the party. with an ac of 17 (including dodge)I don't think I can tank for the group effectively.

[Fruian Thistlefoot]

Its hard to be a tank as a brawler. Its hard to be a tank in pathfinder period for that matter.

The forge of combat is a great guide on how roles in a party should be viewed in the game of pathfinder. This is not a MMORPG and should not be played like one.

A Brawler typically fulfills the role of a Hammer/anvil the best. They help deal hit point damage but they are not suited to being the center of attention for a group of enemies. What they typically do is Debuff enemies with combat maneuvers while slipping in attacks to help kill the enemy. They are like a 2nd line fighter or really good 1v1.

If your the only melee type in your group your going to have it rough. But as long as you don't charge in recklessly and strategically fight you could come out on top.

Crane style is a mediocore feat now since the nerf but if you wanting to focus on AC your going to need to find a way to get Mage armor on you so you can use your wisdom modifer and dex modifier to AC after your Monk dip. Then you can focus on stat boosting items.

But if your focusing on grapple or trip build tying up opposition will cause them to go through great penalties to hit you or provoking more attacks from you making them dead quicker.

I hope that helps. Oh and also you can alway flexibility in Crane style line when you feel you need more AC for a fight...As Master of many styles you can be doing 2 styles at once.

[Grimserver]

yea, I think I may need crane style, but your point about tanking makes sense. One thing I have to ask though is if it is better for a monk dip to foregoe light armor and use the monks wisdom to ac feature. I think there was an enchantment for light armor that gives a +2 to unarmed hit/damage, and monks cant wear armor.

As for feats this is what I think I am going to end up with up to 7th level.

Spoiler:

Brawler 1-Weapon focus
Brawler 2-Dodge
Brawler 2/MoMS 1- Pummeling style, Dragon style
Brawler 2/MoMS 2- Pummeling charge
Brawler 3/MoMS 2- Combat Style Master
Brawler 5/MoMS 2- Dragon Ferocity, Improved Grapple

This lets me keep dodge so I can flexibility in crane style as needed, as well as giving me weapon focus for hamalatsu strike (piercing damage helps with underwater combat, something that I bet is prevalent in skull and shackles)

Alternatively I could go for a trip build, but with some retraining...

Spoiler:

Brawler 1-Combat expertise (retrained)
Brawler 2-Improved trip (retrained)
Brawler 2/MoMS 1- Pummeling style, Dragon style
Brawler 2/MoMS 2- Pummeling charge
Brawler 3/MoMS 2- Combat Reflexes
Brawler 5/MoMS 2- Dragon Ferocity, Vicious stomp

obviously next feat is greater trip. This removes crane style/hamalatu strike from my flexibility list but gives grapple and other maneuvers.

[kestral287]

Wis to AC is only worthwhile with enough Wis. Studded Leather Armor will give you +3 AC; Wis-to-AC +2. Seems like a straightforward no to me, unless you're getting other benefits somewhere that don't work with armor.

[Grimserver]

no its just that it seems like a loss of an ability, but I definitely want light armor so I can get the brawling enchantment. +2 to hit/damage for a +1 armor enchantment is just to good to pass up.

[Fruian Thistlefoot]

your going to need the armor to be +1 already before brawling. Its 4k+ depending if you get mithral armor. Getting Armor spikes (adamantine Preferably) is a good Idea. It's an easy way to get you piercing damage, overcome adamantine DR, and auto damage in grapple situations.

Or if you have a Crafter in the group then maybe going armorless is good too. Getting Items at half cost and making custom items (if DM allows) can net you a better return than going the classic Brawling armor route.

Monks robes and a 16 wisdom (I'm sure your gonna +1 it)will net you +5 to AC which is the exact same as a +1 Brawling Chain shirt. Now just find a way to mage armor yourself and your doing +4 AC better than in Armor.

Once you start adding wisdom Headband and any dex buff your AC will only keep getting better as well as your saves.