Hi Everyone,
I'm working on a potential PFS character that is a "defender of the sewers" themed Hunter with a crocodile animal companion.
This is a different kind of grappling build - the croc acts as the primary grappler while the hunter supports the croc through Aid Another and various teamwork feats.
However, I still want both the hunter and the croc to deal competent damage when they cannot grapple. That's part of the reason I took Precise Shot at level 2 instead of Outflank.
I'm looking for some advice on fleshing out my feats. Also, what druid/ranger spells support a grappling build?
CN Human Hunter
Eye for Tallent (+2 AmC INT)
STR 16 (+2), DEX 14, CHA 14, INT 10, WIS 14, CHA 7
Traits: Reactionary, Adopted (Helpful)
Feats: Combat Reflexes
Feat Progression:
2 - Precise Shot (b)
3 - Bodyguard, Coordinated Maneuvers (b)
5 - Power Attack
6 - Parried Opportunist (b)
7 - ??????
9 - Lookout (b), Lunge
11- Swift Aid
12 - bonus teamwork feat - ????
STR 17 (+2, animal focus), DEX 14, CON 15, INT 3 (+2 EfT), WIS 12, CHA 2
Feats:
1 - Improved Unarmed Strike
2 - Improved Grapple
6 - Power Attack
9 - Greater Grapple
12 - ????
Also, I want to make sure that to aid the croc in a grapple, the hunter follows the standard aid another rules and does not need to have any grappling related feats. The "multiple creatures" section in the grapple rules reads (emphasis mine)...
Multiple creatures can attempt to grapple one target. The creature that first initiates the grapple is the only one that makes a check, with a +2 bonus for each creature that assists in the grapple (using the Aid Another action). Multiple creatures can also assist another creature in breaking free from a grapple, with each creature that assists (using the Aid Another action) granting a +2 bonus on the grappled creature's combat maneuver check.
Thanks!
A teamwork feat I'd get at some point is Improved Share Spells, unless that's been banned in PFS.
If the target is already grappled then it can't make AoO's, so later grapplers assisting the first don't need feats to avoid AoO's. You don't want to be going first with the croc assisting.
For first level spells Magic Fang is obvious, then look at the many debuffs on the druid list. Second level spells include Animal Aspect, and for getting a croc places maybe reduce animal or carry companion. Third level spells have many good options.
If the target is already grappled then it can't make AoO's, so later grapplers assisting the first don't need feats to avoid AoO's. You don't want to be going first with the croc assisting.
But wouldn't i need to have the hunter aid another before i can add the bonus to the croc's grapple check?
After the croc has grappled the target, the hunter will full attack the sane target or move onto the next.
That's the plan anyway.
By the rules as written it looks like the aid another bonus would apply to further grapple checks, not the initial one. If you can make the aid another check simultaneously then the target is not grappled at the time and can probably make an AoO on you if you lack Improved Grapple or similar. As I read it, anyway.
I would agree with Avr, in order to add the bonus to the croc it would go simo, and you would get an AOO against you, aid another would assist in future rounds.
I would agree with Avr, in order to add the bonus to the croc it would go simo, and you would get an AOO against you, aid another would assist in future rounds.
Sorry, I don't understand all of this. Can you please rephrase what you wrote?
What if I did this sequence in combat-
Hunter - move to target, hold standard action to aid another with the condition "immediately after croc succeeds on its attack, but, before the grab check".
Croc - move to target, attack - croc succeeds
Hunter - takes readied action - rolls aid another for grapple
Croc - rolls auto grapple check from grab
Would that work?
I did consider half orc, but, I figured Eye for Talent was a better option. This will give the Croc Imp Grapple at lvl 2 instead of when it finally gets 3 INT at 9. Crocs only go to medium size (without magic) so I needed a way to get him grappling without relying 100% on the Grab ability.
Are there any good grappling feats that would improve the Croc's damage?
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I did consider half orc, but, I figured Eye for Talent was a better option. This will give the Croc Imp Grapple at lvl 2 instead of when it finally gets 3 INT at 9. Crocs only go to medium size (without magic) so I needed a way to get him grappling without relying 100% on the Grab ability.
Are there any good grappling feats that would improve the Croc's damage?
Extra Item Slot for a belt slot, and then a Belt of Anaconda's Coils. This also opens up the Final Embrace feat line.
The croc already gets Death Roll at lvl 4.
When grappling a foe of its size or smaller, a crocodile can perform a death roll upon making a successful grapple check. As it clings to its foe, it tucks in its legs and rolls rapidly, twisting and wrenching its victim. The crocodile inflicts its bite damage and knocks the creature prone. If successful, the crocodile maintains its grapple.
So, are the constrict feats needed? Would they stack on the damage of death roll?
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The constrict would stack with the death roll. They are separate effects. The Constrict damage would apply whenever you make a grapple check, and then you would death roll to apply your bite damage again and knock prone. The benefit of the final embrace feat line would be to apply shaken to the foe making them less likely to escape, and then to double constrict damage.
Frankly, it's a little over the top for most PFS play.
Frankly, it's a little over the top for most PFS play.
Ya. It is a little powerful for PFS. I think death roll +Lead Blades +Dire Collar is enough damage increase for the croc.
Any less over-the-top suggestions? Armor proficiency maybe?
Also, which is the best reach weapon to Aid Another from a distance while still being adjacent to the croc to provide the bonuses from the teamwork feats?
I've been thinking whip for thematic reasons, but, not sure if that would work as well due to the heavy feat requirements.
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Any reason why you are taking Precise Strike instead of Outflank? Flanking will apply on grapple checks, and you can take Pack Flanking to make that happen all the time.
As for which reach weapon to use, I'm partial to the Lucurne Hammer. It's martial, has two damage types, a big damage die, brace, and a bonus to sunder.
I took Precise Shot instead of Outflank because I did not think it would add to grapple checks.
So, new hunter feats outline looks like:
1 - Combat Expertise
2 - Outflank
3 - Pack Flanking, Coordinated Maneuvers
5 - Power Attack
At level 1, with aid, the croc's Grapple bonus is:
+11 = + 1 BAB +3 STR -1 Small +4 Grab + 4 Aid