Fort Rannick / Attack on Sandpoint opinions.

[Hellmuffin]

I have been using a combination of the original adventure (first print, in PDF on my work computer), and the Anniversary edition (physical copy read in off time after work/bring it to work and compare with original). My players just started the Hook Mountain Massacre, and I wanted a few opinions from the community on a couple of topics.
Also, for reference to the party, basic gist of them as follows

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Dwarven barbarian titan mauler/fighter (who switches between two weapon fighting and a two handed giant weapon)

Human wizard who is going hellbent on making a construct/clockwork army (already made a flesh golem). Also has been crafting party dozens of magical swag.

Human cleric of Desna who is tanking like crazy (favors a frost, shock, thundering spear with activation words snap, crackle, pop respectively. House rule lets him activate all at same time)

Sulis ranger with an earthbreaker, with dire bear companion at full druid companion bonus (boon companion/house rule)

Fetchling rogue/shadow dancer with knife fighter archetype (new player who has died Dorkness Rising's Flynn the Bard style several times as of now, but his sneak attacks with a returning dagger help out "sometimes").

Topic 1) Owning a castle

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In the original Hook Mountain Massacre, it strongly suggests the PC's should take control of Fort Rannick once they clear it of Ogres, and use it as a base of operations seeing as it's smack dab in the middle of Varisia, while the Anniversary edition seems to think this taboo. My players seem hellbent on owning property (They have already invested tons of wealth into the Sandpoint economy by having them renovate Thistletop and make it a little safe haven and base of operations for some time). I personally do not mind the players owning Fort Rannick, but I would like to know your opinion/experiences if you went with that route. Would you let them rebuild the black arrows or make a new army with their own priorities? Would you let them use newly made forces in the coming adventure? Are there any parts later in the adventure where having a few dozen Black Arrows with the party would make sense? Etc.

Topic 2) Preparations for Pain

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In the original adventure, once the players defeat Barl Breakbones, it says they they deserve a rest, and could possibly be given months to do what they want, especially if they own Fort Rannick. In the Anniversary edition, they instantly find a note about the inevitable attack on Sandpoint by Teraktinus, and have very little time to arrive or prepare (literally less than a day). I was thinking of letting the players have a few months, but then get word from Shalelu or another source that giants have been sighted coming to Sandpoint, roughly a week before the actual attack. Seeing as they can teleport there with ease by that level, and could possibly bring a healthy dose of mid level, anti-giant rangers with them, they would be able to fortify Sandpoint pretty well with additional warriors, as well as evacuate several civilians to Thistletop (remember, they OWN it now). Do you think having them THAT prepared would be too much and despoil the shock of Sandpoint's attack in general, or do you think it's find, seeing as it really lets the players feel like awesome heroes? And regardless, if they were to prepare, would you make any changes to the raid, as in giant count, giant tactics, etc?

Topic 3) Potential Giant Underlings

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I noticed in the beginning of Fortress of the Stone Giants that is states there are several scouting parties in the Lost Coast, not only to map out the area and get a feel for the land for war, but also to recruit as many goblinoids and ogres/giants they can. Whether I go with letting them prepare in advance for a giant raid or not, would it make sense to add in with Teraktinus' assault a few bands of goblins (possibly a few of the tribes they never got to destroy in Burnt Offerings), as well as a band of ogres (maybe surviving Kreegs)? Is this fight already a pain enough where additional enemies will make it too prolonged and annoying rather than fun?

Keep in mind, I already know what I plan to do. However, your opinions in the past have given me great inspiration for better ideas in my games, and have pointed out certain weaknesses to my own plans that I can work on. There is no wrong answers though, I am just looking for the community's opinion.

[Raymond Lambert]

I once heard someone in the army say that no matter how superior your air power is, you need boots on the ground if you want to hold territory. You might wan to consider taking the few surviving black arrows to sand point would mean other factions take fort ranick while it is unoccupied. Even other giants on their way ther already. Kreegs.in the woods, those goblin tribes maybe.

It is one thing to gives players a few days to spend their expected wealth by level guidelines but giving them months will likely result in them finding a sceem or scam to over equip themselves. Do you really have time for them to gave fun fortifying the place? It will not really serve a purpose later on. Don't waste time there.

If they take the black arrows to standpoint. Consider giving each pc one do you don't waste time rolli.g their attacks. Let the players help you their and get a thrill useing them for a battle.

[Gilarius]

Several points here. Taking them in order:

0) there is no requirement for someone to keep reactivating magic weapons. There is a FAQ saying that sheathing (or equivalent) suspends its effects and they automagically work on readying it. So snap, crackle and pop are only needed when the player wants to turn one or more effects off.

1) ownership of the fort. I'd keep them down to one fortress unless they want to be officially in charge of Turtleback Ferry and its area on behalf of Magnimar. If so, they'll get quite a lot of tedious duties to occupy them. Our party stayed with Thistletop, which was much simpler. If they want spare Black Arrows then it'd cost them part of their own wealth rather than Magnimar paying.

2) preparations. The letter from Barl might be in code, which Quint can translate. So you can give them as much or as little time as you want before the giants attack. Moving the population to Thistletop makes sense if you give them enough time. They can then become very confused when the giants ignore them and go for their real objective.
Generally, this raid needs beefing up or Teraktinus and co lose pretty quickly. The only doubt is usually whether they manage to wreck anywhere or kill any villagers first.

3) extra weak enemies, like the goblins, might make sense and could be used to keep the Sandpoint people occupied while the players deal with the real baddies. But I'd do them as a running narrative rather than roll every die every round.

I hope that helps.

[Ckorik]

Well I'm letting one of my PC's take over the fort (the one that took leadership) - it'll give me a place to put his level 1 and such followers...

As to taking them to Sandpoint - the fort was almost destroyed - given the remote location I'd not let the fort even be 1/2 rebuilt by the attack.

That means the rangers (higher level ones) aren't joining - I might let one high level ranger go (one of the ones rescued by the party if they survived) - as a volunteer.

I'd let my leadership player take their low level followers to the town if they wanted but this is how I'd handle it...

(read the 'gm advice and 'what did you change' thread for more info) - essentially one of the suggestions from others was to let the players figure out the defenses - and then keep the other NPC's out of the way - at key points of the battle let them see the other NPC's fighting - dying - etc. as descriptive elements - they catch site of say Sheriff Hemlock leading his deputies taking down a giant that was smashing the town hall - they see Ven Vinder get socked by a giant but the gruff old man is seen getting up and dusting himself off after flying 20 feet through the air... that kind of thing - think of how they prepare the town and where they place NPCs then come up with some nifty story elements to use when the fight is in those areas...

Let the PC's actually be the heroes - if they bring low level (or even mid level) help from the fort add these elements into your descriptions of what is happening - if they bring lots of high level (as you suggest) I'd up the strength of the giant army in description and then make sure that the help they brought is seen as 'swaying the tide' - but each interaction that the players are involved in are the 'dramatic' moments where nothing the town has helps - and the players essentially are needed to avoid a complete disaster. If you really want the interaction to be stepped up you could use some of the weaker NPCs as 'minor fights' where they get into trouble and the party happens to be there to save them - end of the result is the players truly are the heroes of Sandpoint at the end of the battle - and they feel like they made a mark.

[Wiggz]

A thought comes to mind here - that there isn't this pool of potential Black Arrow candidates out there to replenish Ft. Rannick at will, not unless you go the 'Wall' route and start emptying out local dungeons... and even that would be a logistical hassle. What does seem like an ideal fit though would be for them to use Ft. Rannick as a 'holding place' for their replacement characters... have each player make an alternate character, complete with backstory, to man Ft. Rannick and should something happen to their character, there's already another one waiting in the wings with a built-in reason to be involved.

[Ms. Pleiades]

1: Keep the players invested in Sandpoint, rather than Rannick. Thistletop has all the Gazetteer information and NPCs. Despite being in the "Middle" of Varisia, they're far from the "Core" of the adventure, little ol' Sandpoint.

2. Have them get a message that giants have been seen wandering around Sandpoint, and then give them a week upon arrival with some extra tasks to shore up their Wealth By Level.

3. Add a single raiding group of goblins that can distract from the main events. Add more as you see fit based on how well the group does in wrapping up combat quickly and efficiently. The battle of Sandpoint is all about resolving fights quickly before too much damage is done to the city and too many people are taken. The Monster Codex has lots of options for bringing new life to typically low CR enemies.

[Story Archer]

Ms. Pleiades wrote:

3. Add a single raiding group of goblins that can distract from the main events. Add more as you see fit based on how well the group does in wrapping up combat quickly and efficiently. The battle of Sandpoint is all about resolving fights quickly before too much damage is done to the city and too many people are taken. The Monster Codex has lots of options for bringing new life to typically low CR enemies.

I wanted to make sure the 'Battle of Sandpoint' was a bit more epic in scope, so I included a couple of NPC's they had encountered earlier in the game to lend them aid, and I increased the number of giants in each group by 1 as well as added two roving bands of Ogre warriors that the PC's could encounter anywhere, any time I wanted to spice up that fight.

I also upped the Dragon one age category but brought him in later, when Mokmurian sent for him via Whispering Wind...