Just wondering if Huntmaster would be worth it ? the one level higher AnC seeems like it would be really good , but you have to take a sub optimal pet
Huntmaster
You are an expert trainer of horses, hounds, falcons, or hunting cats.
Prerequisites: Handle Animal 1 rank; either the animal companion, divine bond (mount), or mount class feature; human.
Benefit: If you have the animal companion class feature, pick one of the following types of animal companions that this feat affects: bird, dog, small cat, or horse. If you have the divine bond (mount) or mount class feature, this feat always affects horses.
You gain a +2 bonus on Handle Animal and Knowledge (nature) checks with creatures of that type of animal. Furthermore, you are treated as one level higher when determining the abilities of your animal companion or mount, as long as it is of the chosen type.
If you're playing a cavalier, yes, since you'll be on a horse anyway.
If you're playing a concept that calls for a companion of one of those types, yes, or if the GM warns you that exotic companions will be inconvenient.
EDIT:
Otherwise, only at low levels. There's not much power difference between a big and small cat, or a wolf and dog a wolf, up until the 7th level size increase where the former companions become large and get, compared to the smaller companions, +4 Str, +2 nat ac, and in the case of the cat, grab, pounce and rake. The +1 effective level granted by the feat is good up until level 7 - especially at level 3 when you get your size increase early - but after that the +1 level on a Huntmaster pet isn't enough of an advantage to be worth a feat.
It looks like it would work really well with the Huntmaster archetype for Cavalier. They can have two birds, two dogs, or a bird and a dog. If you took two animals of the same type I think they'd both be a level higher (after splitting your levels as normal and hopefully applying Boon Companion as needed)
EDIT: I forgot to mention that the Huntmaster archetype also improves the bird and dog companions with special tricks such as allowing the bird to distract foes and giving the dog a Trip attack.
Devilkiller wrote: It looks like it would work really well with the Huntmaster archetype for Cavalier. They can have two birds, two dogs, or a bird and a dog. If you took two animals of the same type I think they'd both be a level higher (after splitting your levels as normal and hopefully applying Boon Companion as needed)
EDIT: I forgot to mention that the Huntmaster archetype also improves the bird and dog companions with special tricks such as allowing the bird to distract foes and giving the dog a Trip attack.
do you think it works that way? seems to me that it would be your level would be one higher not the companions you have.
Looks like a +1 to each pet of the type. In which case, the feat is much better for those with multiple pets.
Otherwise, it is an early level feat you will wanna retrain later.
If you have multiple pets, I don't think Huntmaster is worth it. It's only benefit over things like Boon Companion and Beast Rider (which clearly works with multiple companions) is that it can raise the effective level above your character level.
Dafydd wrote: Looks like a +1 to each pet of the type. In which case, the feat is much better for those with multiple pets.
Otherwise, it is an early level feat you will wanna retrain later.
so i could keep 2 animal companions up to par until 10 level?
5 levels each boon companion each and huntsmaster?
5+4+1 ?
Yes. You can do much the same with Beast Rider.
In fact, I made a Fighter 4/Packmaster Hunter X build that, at level 12, had 3 rhinoceroses at effective druid levels of 11, 12, and 12.
This character could share teamwork feats with each of these rhinoceroses. The teamwork feats I had in the build:
Distracting Charge
Horde Charge
Coordinated Charge
@Kefler - I'd definitely allow the +1 from the Huntmaster feat to apply to multiple animal companions of the same type. Even then it only seems like a decent feat.
@Avoron - Using your charge build with big cat companions might be pretty devastating. With 3 companions it also might be interesting to do a "Buffalo Bill" build with 3 bison companions (aurochs stats). If they used Stampede I guess they'd do about 50 damage to anything Large or smaller in their path.
Sadly, this build uses the Animal Ally and Beast Rider feats, so the animal companions must be elephants, pteranodons, rhinoceroses, stegosauruses, or triceratops.
Interestingly enough, in this build, the number of animal companions you can use effectively is limited by the number of animal companions you can share teamwork feats with. As you increase in level, you can use more animal companions, but they're less powerful comparatively.
Avoron wrote: Yes. You can do much the same with Beast Rider.
In fact, I made a Fighter 4/Packmaster Hunter X build that, at level 12, had 3 rhinoceroses at effective druid levels of 11, 12, and 12.
This character could share teamwork feats with each of these rhinoceroses. The teamwork feats I had in the build:
Distracting Charge
Horde Charge
Coordinated Charge
I just built this as you said for an NPC and this is SICK. Throw in there Charge Through and the Overrun feats, if space on the hunter's feats include Outflank and Pack flanking. This is a painful stampeđe.
All the huntmaster's feas went into Teamwork feats.
Edit: full huntsmster, no fighter, so could probably get more feats.
Avoron wrote: Yes. You can do much the same with Beast Rider.
In fact, I made a Fighter 4/Packmaster Hunter X build that, at level 12, had 3 rhinoceroses at effective druid levels of 11, 12, and 12.
This character could share teamwork feats with each of these rhinoceroses. The teamwork feats I had in the build:
Distracting Charge
Horde Charge
Coordinated Charge
could you break down how you kept all the companions at that high of level?
Here's my build, but it can't get Horde Charge until a little later, as I previously though that it was a combat feat, but it's not. Huh.
Feat progression:
1: [whatever, retrained at 4th level to Animal Ally], [whatever (Fighter Bonus)]
2: [whatever, retrained at 12th level to Coordinated Charge (Fighter Bonus)]
3: Nature Soul
4: Distracting Charge (Fighter Bonus)
5: Beast Rider
6:
7: Boon Companion
8:
9: Boon Companion
10:
11: Boon Companion
12:
Pretty much all your feats after here are going to be Boon Companion for the new animal companions you get. If you have a free feat, Horde Charge is great, but it depends on whether you value quality over quantity in terms of your animal companions. The important part is that they all get to charge twice per round.
So, at level 12:
Animal Ally gives you 9 effective druid levels (character level-3)
Hunter levels give you 8 effective druid levels
17 effective druid levels
Rhino 1: 6 levels
Rhino 2: 6 levels
Rhino 3: 5 levels
After Boon Companions and Beast Rider:
Rhino 1: 12 levels
Rhino 2: 12 levels
Rhino 3: 11 levels
Enjoy!
Avoron wrote: Here's my build, but it can't get Horde Charge until a little later, as I previously though that it was a combat feat, but it's not. Huh.
Feat progression:
1: [whatever, retrained at 4th level to Animal Ally], [whatever (Fighter Bonus)]
2: [whatever, retrained at 12th level to Coordinated Charge (Fighter Bonus)]
3: Nature Soul
4: Distracting Charge (Fighter Bonus)
5: Beast Rider
6:
7: Boon Companion
8:
9: Boon Companion
10:
11: Boon Companion
12:
Pretty much all your feats after here are going to be Boon Companion for the new animal companions you get. If you have a free feat, Horde Charge is great, but it depends on whether you value quality over quantity in terms of your animal companions. The important part is that they all get to charge twice per round.
So, at level 12:
Animal Ally gives you 9 effective druid levels (character level-3)
Hunter levels give you 8 effective druid levels
17 effective druid levels
Rhino 1: 6 levels
Rhino 2: 6 levels
Rhino 3: 5 levels
After Boon Companions and Beast Rider:
Rhino 1: 12 levels
Rhino 2: 12 levels
Rhino 3: 11 levels
Enjoy!
ahh nice . now i see why i couldn't figure it out , a couple of things my group wouldn't allow .
nice build
The Animal Ally feat looks like a nice way to pick up an animal companion for classes which don't have one, especially the feat rich Fighter. Unfortunately I'm not sure if it would work for a rhino master since it restricts the animal companion to the following list: badger, bird, camel, cat (small), dire rat, dog, horse, pony, snake (viper), or wolf
I recall reading previously that if a character with a restricted animal companion list like a Ranger's multiclasses into Druid he or she can only stack all of the effective Druid levels from both classes for an animal companion legal on both lists. Similarly a standard Cavalier couldn't change his or her Mount to a tiger (big cat) just by taking a level of Druid. You also can't apply Boon Companion to the same animal more than once, so the power of the triple companions might begin to taper off at higher levels.
I've been thinking of making a multiple animal companion build for quite a while. Cavalier 4 with the Horse Master feat would provide one full power companion though it would have to be a horse. The other companion could come from a variety of classes such as Druid or Sylvan Sorcerer (using Share Spells with True Strike can be fun). I guess you might be able to tweak such a build a little with the Huntmaster feat if the idea of having two horses seemed appealing. Unfortunately the Horse isn't a great attacker and fitting two of them into a dungeon could be really tough.
The Beast Rider feat, in addition to giving you a boost to your effective druid level for each and every rhinoceros, explicitly adds the companion type you choose (in this case, rhinoceros) to your list of possible animal companions or mounts.
Yeah, the cavalier/druid build also work's well. With Beast Rider, you could get an animal companion other than a horse, but remember that you'll have to take something different for your druid companion.
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