This trick specifically eliminates Master Trick and Rogue Talent from the possible selections, which implies to me every other ninja trick is allowed, or they would have been mentioned as well. This trick gives no action cost, I think the intention is it "plugs through" to the action cost of the selected trick. However, not all ninja tricks use actions, so:
No action listed, and it is (Ex), not (Su), so the common Su -> Standard does not apply for RAI. I think it is not-an-action.
1. The thing that made me stop and think about this - can this trick be used to learn Combat Trick, allowing a ninja to learn a combat feat for a limited number of rounds, provided they haven't already taken Combat Trick? It seems to me this wouldn't be broken per say, as you still need to qualify for the feat and only get it for so many rounds at a ki cost, but it also seems like you could pick a different feat each time, which would make Combat Trick far more powerful in versatility to not take and leave as a floating "ki for feat" utility option than getting 1 set feat out of it, and that doesn't feel like it was intentional. I can see this being used for other non-action tricks like Fast Stealth, but this seems like the biggest deal to me.
Pazio may nerf it to act like Paragon Surge by limiting you to a single "remembered" trick per day, but that makes no sense. Also, the cost is quite high, so it is limited. Most ninja are not big with Charisma.
While the "Combat Trick" might be unintentional, I think the main effect was intended.
RAW: You can use it for a different Combat Trick each time, but since you can't have the same trick twice, you can only use it for one weapon at a time.
2. Regarding the lack of clear action cost, on the one hand, I could in theory use Forgotten Trick to learn Feather Fall and then use that as an immediate action, all while falling to my erstwhile doom (or just damage maybe), if the Forgotten Trick does "plug through" to the action cost of the chosen trick. This doesn't seem immediately game-breaking to me, I kinda like the high cost (3 ki) to save your life really, but it might be considered unbalanced. However, going back to Combat Trick, could I Forgotten Trick as an immediate action to learn Dodge in the middle of an enemy's attack, changing a hit into a miss? This isn't likely to come up often, but Dodge is a very tame feat, and there's probably more exploitable ones out there with the right builds I'm not aware of or recalling, so it feels like it needs a clear ruling overall.
Since there is no language for the action, you cannot assume an action of "immediate". As a GM, I would not allow you to do this as an immediate action, but when your turn comes, I would allow you to do it.
3. A tamer question, can you have more than one Forgotten Trick going at a time? Could I say, use it once to learn Deflect Arrows (already meeting the prerequisites), and again (the next turn?) to learn Snatch Arrows? Is it stackable, put simply? Of note, since Combat Trick can only be taken once, you can't ki your way through entire feat chains.
Yes, you can have more than one.
No, you cannot get both Combat Trick(Deflect Arrows) and Combat Trick(Snatch Arrows) because that is duplicating a trick. As a GM, I would allow to drop the first to get the second, but the ki is still spent.I'm considering taking this spell for a sorcerer of mine, as I like it thematically both for them being a little battery of magic and just the fun of sharing. However one of the other casters in their party is an alchemist, so I ask how does this work with extracts? To quote the site:
In effect, an alchemist prepares his spells by mixing ingredients into a number of extracts, and then “casts” his spells by drinking the extract.The wording I'm looking at is from the spell "The next spell the target casts", and the above stating that drinking an extract is "casting" the spell. I could see three possible ways of putting this together myself:
1. The extract is not consumed, meaning it can be used again, since the Channel The Gift charge was used in its place.
2. The extract is consumed but the spell slot used to prepare it isn't, meaning another (different or the same?) extract could be prepared with that slot in the same day.
3. Channel The Gift does not work with extracts - this would be kind of disappointing, as alchemists seem to be similar to wizards in many ways and this spell seems very much built to work with wizards, but if so...
(I also wonder about infused extracts.)
Sorry for length, and a Merry Christmas to all too ^^.
RAW: Alchemists are not casting spells, so the target of your spell is not satisfied.
For a home game, as GM, I would be OK with allowing it./cevah
|
No action listed, and it is (Ex), not (Su), so the common Su -> Standard does not apply for RAI. I think it is not-an-action.The definition of Extraordinary abilities is one area I wish that Pathfinder hadn't cut out wording to save space vs the 3.5 version. Y'see, the definition used to contain the following line:
Using an extraordinary ability is usually not an action because most extraordinary abilities automatically happen in a reactive fashion. Those extraordinary abilities that are actions are standard actions unless otherwise noted.So, yeah, I'd agree that it's probably not-an-action.
That's still in the CRB.
Extraordinary Abilities (Ex): Using an extraordinary ability is usually not an action because most extraordinary abilities automatically happen in a reactive fashion. Those extraordinary abilities that are actions are usually standard actions that cannot be disrupted, do not require concentration, and do not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Given the wording of the trick, I don't think it is reactive. With the PRD definition of (Ex), that makes it seem to need a standard action to invoke, as there is no wording otherwise. Therefore, using it to grab feather fall in a reactive manner can not be done.
/cevah
|
I always assumed all of the ninja tricks were swift actions unless they specify otherwise, since it more or less says that in the description of the Ki pool.
By spending 1 point from her ki pool, a ninja can make one additional attack at her highest attack bonus, but she can do so only when making a full attack. In addition, she can spend 1 point to increase her speed by 20 feet for 1 round. Finally, a ninja can spend 1 point from her ki pool to give herself a +4 insight bonus on Stealth checks for 1 round. Each of these powers is activated as a swift action. A ninja can gain additional powers that consume points from her ki pool by selecting certain ninja tricks.
Oh yay, replies :D, thanks everyone and Happy New Year ^^! I'm new to these boards, so apologies of I fudge the reply etiquette.
Cevah: Thanks for the in-depth replies :). I guess Forgotten Trick would fall closest to a free action - at any time and as many times on my turn as I choose (and have ki for), but not outside of it? As for Deflect then Snatch Arrows, those are both separate entries from Combat Trick for the ninja trick list, so I was using them as an example of qualifying for prerequisites in a chain with FT, like Acrobatic Master to High Jumper :D.
I said there was no wording for reading it as reactive, and the definition of (Ex) above indicates they are either reactive or standard, and not free actions.
While you can use Forgotten Trick to get Combat Trick for the last in a chain, you can only get it once. To get a second would require a different trick than Combat Trick.
/cevah