Benefit: Once per day as a swift action, you can change your wandering hex. When you change your hex, the new hex must be associated with the wandering spirit with which you are currently bonded. At 12th level, you can change either or both of your wandering hexes with the feat.
Normal: Shamans select their hexes every day when they prepare their spells and cannot change them.
Spoiler:
Arcane Enlightenment (Su): The shaman's native intelligence grants her the ability to tap into arcane lore. The shaman can add a number of spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1) to the list of shaman spells she can prepare. To cast these spells she must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell's level, but the saving throw DCs of these spells are based on her Wisdom rather than Intelligence. When she casts these spells, they are treated as divine rather than arcane. Each time the shaman gains a level after taking this hex, she can choose to replace one of these spells for a new spell on the wizard/sorcerer spell list.
Can you use Arcane Enlightenment while preparing spells off your list, then use flexible hex to switch your hexes and lose these spells off your list but keep them prepared?
I would say no. Losing a hex also means losing the benefits of it. I'd also say you lost the slots since you can't re-prepare a slot that was already filled.
I would say no. Losing a hex also means losing the benefits of it. I'd also say you lost the slots since you can't re-prepare a slot that was already filled.
That's not how spell casting works for a wizard though. You cannot lose memorized spells if your spellbook is destroyed, lost, or stolen you merely cannot use bonded item to grab a spell.
Out of curiosity is there any rule you're referencing or do you just not want this to work because it sounds OP? There's no rule supporting the loss of spells to my knowledge and that's why I was asking if there was one and I couldn't find it.
Bascially Arcane Enlightenment temporarily adds wizard spells to the Shamans class list, allowing him to prepare and cast them. If you wandering hex away from Arcane Enlightenment, those spells are no longer on your class list.
This is a rare example of when you can have a spell prepared that isn't on your class list, and I don't know of any specific rules on it, but it is reasonable to me that you can't cast a spell that isn't on your class list.
One thing to think about, is with the Arcane Enlightenment hex 'on' you would be able to use wands of those spells, but once you wandered away from it, you would no longer be able to do so.
This is similar to the nerf they did to Paragon Surge.
Prior to nerf you could take a feat that gave you extra spells known. Cast them, then cast paragon surge ot take the same feat with differnt spells. They ruled that whenver you cast paragon surge that day, the feat is the same (and that if you choose spells with it they are the same also).
This is just another method of doing the same thing as Paragon Surge.
Bascially Arcane Enlightenment temporarily adds wizard spells to the Shamans class list, allowing him to prepare and cast them. If you wandering hex away from Arcane Enlightenment, those spells are no longer on your class list.
This is correct.
Dave Justus wrote:
This is a rare example of when you can have a spell prepared that isn't on your class list, and I don't know of any specific rules on it, but it is reasonable to me that you can't cast a spell that isn't on your class list.
This doesn't seem reasonable to me at all. Once prepared are never lost unless through another magical or supernatural effect.
Dave Justus wrote:
One thing to think about, is with the Arcane Enlightenment hex 'on' you would be able to use wands of those spells, but once you wandered away from it, you would no longer be able to do so.
This is definitely right.
Spoiler:
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A shaman casts divine spells drawn from the shaman spell list. A shaman must choose and prepare her spells in advance.
Proof of prepared casting.
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To prepare or cast a spell, a shaman must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell's level. The saving throw DC against a shaman's spell is 10 + the spell's level + the shaman's Wisdom modifier.
Proof of associated scores. Not associated spell list, lacks wording requiring it to be on your list.
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Like other spellcasters, a shaman can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Shaman. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score.
Extra, nothing here.
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Shamans commune with their spirit animals to prepare their spells. Each shaman must choose a time when she must spend 1 hour each day in quiet contemplation with her spirit animal to regain her daily allotment of spells. A shaman can prepare and cast any spell on the shaman spell list, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily communion.
As you can see there is no text about losing spells from prepared slots.
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Prerequisite(s): Wandering hex class feature.
Benefit: Once per day as a swift action, you can change your wandering hex. When you change your hex, the new hex must be associated with the wandering spirit with which you are currently bonded. At 12th level, you can change either or both of your wandering hexes with the feat.
Normal: Shamans select their hexes every day when they prepare their spells and cannot change them.
Would you try to argue if I had a buff going from the hex I lost it? Because that's the effective argument here. If I had an ongoing effect such as a confusion curse would I lose it? No I wouldn't this just happens to be a corner case which some would see as abusive, but those same people probably already see using wandering arcane enlightenment as abusive so I really have no stock in their opinion unless you have RAW to back it up.
Ongoing effects or permanent effects are not lost when the hex goes away. The ability to cast a spell is NOT TIED to it being on your list as written. The ability to prepare a spell is tied to your spell list. I wanted to know if there was anything contradicting the written spell list block or a ruling specifically on something similar to this.
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This is similar to the nerf they did to Paragon Surge.
Prior to nerf you could take a feat that gave you extra spells known. Cast them, then cast paragon surge ot take the same feat with differnt spells. They ruled that whenver you cast paragon surge that day, the feat is the same (and that if you choose spells with it they are the same also).
This is just another method of doing the same thing as Paragon Surge.
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Can I cast paragon surge multiple times in a day to gain different benefits?
No. The first time each day that you cast paragon surge, you must select a feat and make all the associated choices that come with it. Once that choice is made, it is set for the day and additional castings must make the exact same decisions.
I am not attempting to gain multiple spells. I am attempting to gain the spell and then use a feat to lose this. The paragon surge FAQ reinforces my point since the feat explicitly violates the bolded part of the FAQ.
I would say no. Losing a hex also means losing the benefits of it. I'd also say you lost the slots since you can't re-prepare a slot that was already filled.
That's not how spell casting works for a wizard though. You cannot lose memorized spells if your spellbook is destroyed, lost, or stolen you merely cannot use bonded item to grab a spell.
Out of curiosity is there any rule you're referencing or do you just not want this to work because it sounds OP? There's no rule supporting the loss of spells to my knowledge and that's why I was asking if there was one and I couldn't find it.
I'm not referencing a specific rule, since this doesn’t seem to be explicitly stated. I don't consider it overpowered, merely illogical to claim that you still have the benefit of this hex after discarding it and getting another one. Yes, this doesn't fit in with the normal rules for memorised spells. You are aware of that, and so am I. My personal opinion is that losing the hex should mean losing the spells from it.
You clearly want this to work. Everyone else thinks it won't. What does your GM think? That's the opinion which matters.
Feel free to make a FAQ request, but I don't think Paizo worries about corner cases.
I would say no. Losing a hex also means losing the benefits of it. I'd also say you lost the slots since you can't re-prepare a slot that was already filled.
That's not how spell casting works for a wizard though. You cannot lose memorized spells if your spellbook is destroyed, lost, or stolen you merely cannot use bonded item to grab a spell.
Out of curiosity is there any rule you're referencing or do you just not want this to work because it sounds OP? There's no rule supporting the loss of spells to my knowledge and that's why I was asking if there was one and I couldn't find it.
I'm not referencing a specific rule, since this doesn’t seem to be explicitly stated. I don't consider it overpowered, merely illogical to claim that you still have the benefit of this hex after discarding it and getting another one. Yes, this doesn't fit in with the normal rules for memorised spells. You are aware of that, and so am I. My personal opinion is that losing the hex should mean losing the spells from it.
You clearly want this to work. Everyone else thinks it won't. What does your GM think? That's the opinion which matters.
Feel free to make a FAQ request, but I don't think Paizo worries about corner cases.
The purpose of knowing the RAW is for PFS. I don't really care what it is for home games because you can just ask the GM and solve the issue.
Those who think it doesn't don't seem to have provided any reason it wouldn't other than "We think it's op so no." I've provided evidence that once prepared even if you removed every single spell from the spell list you can still cast any prepared spell.
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To prepare or cast a spell, a shaman must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell's level. The saving throw DC against a shaman's spell is 10 + the spell's level + the shaman's Wisdom modifier.
Preparing or casting a spell is based on a stat. Casting a spell is not associated with what's on your list. Preparing it is.
RAW is the only thing I'm looking to confirm since that's all that matters.
