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Well, sort of. The idea behind this class was to create a heroic, spell-less necromancer who has sort of a gish-like feel, being able to mix it up in combat as well as animate the dead.
Just as a heads up, a few aspects of the class (like Taphic, the tongue of the dead, and the ability to create non-evil undead) are somewhat specific to my homebrew campaign setting. These are however exclusively small details that can be done away with or changed with minimum effort if anyone wants to try one of these chaps out in their own game.
So, without further ado:
The Thanaturge - This is the class itself.
Thanaturge Rites - These are the class' selectable abilities gained at 1st, 2nd and every even-numbered class level thereafter.
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Niiiice! /borat
A few things:
You realize necromancy doesn't have to be Evil, right? It's up to the campaign setting. You could nix that entirely for yours, if you wanted. My understanding is that the only reason mindless undead were made Evil (when not so long ago, they were Neutral Neutral) was because it made more sense for Paladins to be able to Smite them.
The way this class strikes me, I'd say its magic should be based on either Intelligence or Wisdom (necromancy, after all, generally lends itself to both of those scores better than Charisma).
What is that site you're presenting it on? I keep seeing it used, and I'd like to be able to utilize it myself.
Cheers for the feedback, glad you think it looks aight.
I'm using Google Drive to host these files. Otherwise, the documents were just created in Word and exported as PDFs.
I know necromancy doesn't have to be evil, but since spell descriptors are a rules thing I wanted to clarify that a thanaturge's SLAs don't have that descriptor.
I respect your views regarding the ability score focus, but I cannot disagree more. These guys are supposed to be charismatic necromantic agent type dudes. They need to be great at Bluff and all the rest of it. Also, Charisma is the defining stat for undead, and even though they're spell-less these guys are a lot more like a spontaneous caster than anything else. Gonna have to agree to disagree on that one. Feel free to have an Int- or Wis-based thanaturge in your campaign if you feel that's more suitable, though.
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I respect your views regarding the ability score focus, but I cannot disagree more. These guys are supposed to be charismatic necromantic agent type dudes. They need to be great at Bluff and all the rest of it. Also, Charisma is the defining stat for undead, and even though they're spell-less these guys are a lot more like a spontaneous caster than anything else. Gonna have to agree to disagree on that one. Feel free to have an Int- or Wis-based thanaturge in your campaign if you feel that's more suitable, though.
I see. I didn't entirely understand that. I was reading it as more of a "mysterious mystic warrior" (and was bordering on making suggestions for readjusting it to be more of a warrior than rogue), but I see what you were aiming for a bit better now.
That's totally fair. I should probably have finished a flavour text for these guys, but I couldn't quite come up with one I like. It's a totally legit misunderstanding/different perspective. They just have a lot of abilities (Like Turn/Command Undead) that synergize well with Charisma, so I'd rather keep things as is.
Well, when you upload a file to Google Drive, you gain access to the URL of its location. Then I just post the link here. Not sure what you mean by 'putting them on display'. I upload the files and then I post a link to the URL...
Some early thoughts:
Grave touch: I see no particular reason why the healing provided to undeads should be different than damage inflicted. It won't change so much.
Lesser Rites: Not all of the cantrips listed feels like a fit to me.
Sepulchral Agent: It seems unclear to me if the bonus to Bluff, Disguise, and Stealth apply all the time or only when "pertaining to negative energy and undead"?
Death's Reach: Turning melee touch attack into incorporeal touch attack is step backward instead of advantage.
Cheers for the commentary, Drejk.
1. The grave touch stuff was only because people seem to freak out about always-on healing, so I wanted to make it really low. I don't really care one way or another. Easily removed.
2. I'll look them over. Any specific ones that seem unsuitable?
3. Only the Knowledge check bonus pertains to negative energy and undead. Any tip on how to make the wording more clear?
4. I did not realize this. I can't remember the difference off the top of my head. Well, consider that removed, then, and they'll just get a reach increase at that level.
EDIT: Oh, I see my confusion regarding incorporeal touch attacks. Alright, so only the range should be increased at 9th level, and at 19th the attack should ignore cover; the only plus a normal incorporeal touch attack has.
At 2nd level the thanaturge gains a bonus equal to 1/2 her class level on all Bluff, Disguise, Stealth, and Knowledge (religion) checks. In addition, she gains an equal bonus on all other Knowledge checks pertaining directly to negative energy or the undead.
Cheers for the commentary, Drejk.
1. The grave touch stuff was only because people seem to freak out about always-on healing, so I wanted to make it really low. I don't really care one way or another. Easily removed.
Fear of unlimited healing can be solved by grave touch giving temporary hit points to undeads instead of healing. Anyway in case of unlimited healing 1d6+level or 1d4+half level is really minor difference.
I am not sure if it is intentional or not but with negative energy affinity gained at 3rd level (I think, I don't have the file open at the moment) the thanaturge can heal oneself just like lich can do with its negative energy touch.
3. Only the Knowledge check bonus pertains to negative energy and undead. Any tip on how to make the wording more clear?
Put the Knowledge checks with the limitation in the front and follow with the rest of skills. Something like:
"Thanaturge adds half his level to Knowledge checks pertaining to negative energy and undeads as well as Bluff, Disguise, and Stealth checks.
Thanks for the feedback, guys. I will definitely change the grave touch's healing to be the same as the damage dealt. Yes, the ability to heal oneself once negative energy affinity kicks in is definitely intentional. I'm not personally bothered by unlimited healing, as that's virtually in place anyway with the right wands; I'll just keep that as is.
I'll alter the wording for Sepulchral Agent so there's no confusion which skill bonuses apply under which circumstances.
As far as the fluff goes, I did leave a lot of that out partly on purpose. One the one hand, I'd like it to be possible to slot this class into any standard "undead are evil" setting by simply having thanaturgy be a new kind of necromancy that gets invented and allows for the creation of non-evil undead. This would be the reason behind the wording in the Walking Dead Class feature.
The weapons were chosen partly for reasons relating to the fluff of my homebrew setting, but also because I felt they suited the feel of the class. No plans on changing to full martial proficiency. As far as boosting attack rolls go, there is a rite called "Smite Living" which I thought would be enough to cover that gap. I might add another rite to give a bonus on attack rolls with the theme weapons, or create a more "death knight"-y archetype which gains attack roll bonuses.
As far as forming a bond with "Death itself" and its roleplaying implications, I purposefully gave as much fluff info regarding that as Druids gain for their Nature bond. A thanaturge could worship some death deity, or she could just sort of worship death in general, much like a druid can essentially be a nature priest or just a devotee of various nature spirits.
EDIT: I'm a bit surprised, though happily so, by the sorts of things you guys' comments have focused on. They seem pretty minor, I mean to say, which makes me hopeful the class as a whole seems balanced. I was rather unsure of whether getting undead animation without paying any onyx would be possible to balance, though I think that the daily drain on the thanaturge's dead pool in order to keep her minions alive seems workable.
This is a neat idea.
Thanks, glad you guys seem to like the class.
@Volvogg: You know what, that's a good point. I think I drew up the class table very early in the class' creation, when they didn't have as much of a gishish flavor. I might consider a good Fort save. Although, I think I rather thought all the juicy saving throw bonuses acquired via the thanatomorphosis class feature would somewhat make up for the weak save. What do people think?
As for your second idea, I have been thinking of adding something like that. Instead of just giving them a limited list of spell-like abilities, I thought that perhaps thanaturges with a necrofex, who can cast any necromancy spell of a level equal to or lesser than 1/2 their class level once per day, might be able to select a Rite that just lets them do that one more time per day, most likely with a limit on how many times you can select that Rite and how frequently (once per 4 class levels, perhaps). I might also remove the dead point cost for that 1/day necromancy spell altogether, or at least reducing it to 1/2 the spell's level (minimum 1).
I think I personally like that more than just turning them into pseudospellcasters. Being able to cast ANY necromancy spell a few times per day seems a lot more fun and flavourful to me than just a handful of SLAs from a limited list. Rather like a necromantic version of the Skald's Spell Kenning ability. I'd be interested to hear what people think about this; maybe I'm a lone voice and most folks would find your idea preferable.
As a side note, I am definitely going to get around to creating a Death Knight and Death Mage-style pair of archetypes for this class, which focus more on either the casty or fighty aspect of it. I just need to come up with some original mechanic to go along with those two themes.
I love this project. Thank you.
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Cheers. Don't mention it. Wild horses couldn't keep me from churning out homebrew classes and tossing them up here. I have a huge backlog of other fun ones, but I don't wanna deluge the forum with too many simultaneous posts. I'm glad my stuff seems to be appreciated. It warms the cockles of my heart. :)