Flying Dwarfs & Armor!

[Kchaka]

Hello. Do dwarfs under the fly spell (or with any other means of flying, aparantly) and wearing medium or heavy armor have their flying speed reduced? I think not.

Here's a post from the 3.5 FAQ, to help: "Can a dwarf wearing medium or heavy armor or carrying a medium or heavy load use the Tumble skill? Yes. Thanks to the dwarven racial ability to move at full speed even when armored or encumbered, the character’s speed hasn’t been “reduced by armor, excess equipment, or loot”, so he’s free to use the Tumble skill. Of course, he still suffers an armor check penalty for either the armor or the load (whichever is worse).

The exact text in the PF rulebook is:"Slow and Steady: Dwarves have a base speed of 20 feet, but their speed is never modified by armor or encumbrance.

If I understand right it's almost as if dwarfs ignore the speed penalties of wearing medium or heavy armor. So, that affects every speed, including flying, right?

For example, a dwarf wearing a Full Plate and under the Fly and Haste spells would have a land speed of 50ft and flying speed of 90ft, with an armor check penaly of -6, right?

If that's right, ironically, this makes dwarfs one of the fastest races, practically speaking.

[Kazaan]

I guess it depends on whether 'speed' in the subordinate clause is referring to all speed types (land, swim, climb, fly) generally, or if it is using 'base speed' as an antecedent. Is there any precedent regarding a Dwarf maintaining their swim or climb speeds regardless of load/armor penalty? If so, it would mean that it is general and, thus, a Dwarf would get full fly speed regardless of armor. I'm going to lean on the side that it's referring to their land speed particularly because I can't rightly see a dwarf swimming or flying unhindered just because he knows how to walk/run efficiently while carrying a load.

[Dave Justus]

Kchaka wrote:

If I understand right it's almost as if dwarfs ignore the speed penalties of wearing medium or heavy armor. So, that affects every speed, including flying, right?

Nope. Speed is land speed. The ability does what it says it does, no more, no less.

[Imbicatus]

It's tied to base speed, which is land speed. However, this also means you can carry up to 2x your maximum encumbrance without slowing down at all.

[Murdock Mudeater]

If barbarian fast movement is land speed, then dwarf slow and steady is too.

I will note that even as a dwarf, there are some penalties due to encumbrance or heavy armor which are retained.

[Kchaka]

Barbarian's Fast Movement is a bonus to land speed, and in the 3.5 FAQ it was stated that it won't work with medium armor even for a dwarf, just like the Monk's speed bonus. I think that the barbarian's fast movement should work for a dwarf with heavy armor, since it's a purelly speed bonus who's only condition is to not wearing heavy armor, something that aparantly makes no difference for a dwarf. But, by RAW you just can't.

Slow and Steady is different, it's not a bonus to any type of speed, it's a ability that says armor and encumbrance don't reduce a dwarfs speed. It doesn't specify to only land speed.

[Ravingdork]

Unless an effect specifically states that armor reduces one's fly speed, it doesn't, unless it happens to be barding.

[Kchaka]

It does say, on the Fly spell, medium or heavy armor or encumbered characters fly at a speed of 40ft instead of 60ft, just like how it would happen to land speed according to the armor and encumberance for other base speed table on pag.170.

However, I found two texts that clarify that Slow and Steady only prevents dwarfs land speed from slowing below 20ft because of armor or encumberance:

Pag.150, Armor Speed:" Remember, however, that a dwarf’s land speed remains 20 feet even in medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load."

And also in the original 3.5 Dwarvs Race text, SRD:

• Dwarf base land speed is 20 feet. However, dwarves can move at this speed even when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load (unlike other creatures, whose speed is reduced in such situations).

I guess I wrongly assumed that the dwarfs ability to tumble at full speed with heavy armor, as written in the 3.5 FAQ, was a clarification that Slow and Steady also allows them to move at "Full Speed" with heavy armor.

Funny, unless PF intended to broaden the power of Slow and Steady, I don't know why they changed the text to something more vague.