Is Golarion gravity the same as earth's? Is the sun the same mass as our sun?

[Guang]

Is Golarion gravity the same as earth's? Is the sun the same mass as our sun?

Been looking at Distant Worlds....if Golarion gravity is the same as the earth's, then it's sun is 90.1% of our sun's mass. So was wondering, has this issue ever been addressed? I figured the logical place to put it would be Rasputin Must Die, but didn't find anything. Any ideas?

[Senko]

Guang wrote:

Is Golarion gravity the same as earth's? Is the sun the same mass as our sun?

Been looking at Distant Worlds....if Golarion gravity is the same as the earth's, then it's sun is 90.1% of our sun's mass. So was wondering, has this issue ever been addressed? I figured the logical place to put it would be Rasputin Must Die, but didn't find anything. Any ideas?

How do you work that out? I mean couldn't the abundane of heavy metals e.g. adamantium, planar gates, artifacts of various natures make the sun the same as our earth's but Golarion have more mass instead?

[Cap. Darling]

I think you May be over scienceing it here. It is not a issue and there is nothing to adress. At least i dont undestand the issue. I assume the gravity is the same and if you find your self in need of the Suns size just Pick one.

[Guang]

Senko wrote:

Guang wrote:

Is Golarion gravity the same as earth's? Is the sun the same mass as our sun?

Been looking at Distant Worlds....if Golarion gravity is the same as the earth's, then it's sun is 90.1% of our sun's mass. So was wondering, has this issue ever been addressed? I figured the logical place to put it would be Rasputin Must Die, but didn't find anything. Any ideas?

How do you work that out? I mean couldn't the abundane of heavy metals e.g. adamantium, planar gates, artifacts of various natures make the sun the same as our earth's but Golarion have more mass instead?

1. Distant worlds says that the G-Sun's mass is 300,000 times that of Golarion.

2. Wikipedia says our sun is 332,900 earth masses

3. 300,000 divided by 332,900 is .9011715229, making the G-sun 90.1% of the mass of our sun, if Golarion is the same mass as earth.

4. Ergo, either Golarion masses more than Earth, or G-sun masses less than our sun.

Interesting either way, and could affect all kinds of things such as star type, mean orbital distance, surface gravity, etc.

Cap. Darling wrote:

I think you May be over scienceing it here.

Yes, of course I am. I thought it would be fun to chart out the Golarion solar system based on distance and orbital mechanics. Since the entry for Triaxus specifically states that all other planets behave according to normal scientific principles, it should be possible. So I started looking for confirmation of either the same gravity between Earth and Golarion, or different gravity between Earth and Golarion so I can solve the rest of the equation. Had trouble finding confirmation myself, so asked for help here.

Why? For fun, of course :)

So, anyone have any ideas? According to Fluff-as-written, yes can only be the answer to 1 of my 2 original questions, with no being the answer to the other one. Unless 300,000 was meant to be a rounding of 332,900?

[Nawtyit]

300,000 is probably just a rounding from 332,900.

[LazarX]

Guang wrote:

Is Golarion gravity the same as earth's? Is the sun the same mass as our sun?

Been looking at Distant Worlds....if Golarion gravity is the same as the earth's, then it's sun is 90.1% of our sun's mass. So was wondering, has this issue ever been addressed? I figured the logical place to put it would be Rasputin Must Die, but didn't find anything. Any ideas?

Answers in order:

1 and 2. Close enough to make no difference.

3. Most assuredly not, and probably never will be. Nor does it need to be. This is a fantasy wargame, not a physics/biology/historical/financial/social lecture series. That's why Distant Worlds has a large selection of habitable or somewhat habitable worlds in Golarion's solar system instead of just one.

[Deadmanwalking]

Well, Golarion's gravity is about Earth-normal. The two are (per Rasputin Must Die!) close enough that you don't notice any meaningful difference if you go from one to the other (which implies it's really close)...but I wouldn't worry about the exact amount.

The Sun, on the other hand, could easily only be 90% as large, though in that case, given Golarion's climate, I'd expect Golarion is a bit closer to it. If that were the case, only astronomers and those who planet-hop could even meaningfully tell the difference.

[Berinor]

Nawtyit wrote:

300,000 is probably just a rounding from 332,900.

Indeed. Given the significant digits guidelines, the confidence is only so-so on even the three, much less the first zero.

It's the same idea as the museum employee giving his family a tour who tells them the T-rex is 65,000,003 years old. Because it was 65,000,000 when he started three years ago.

[Narquelion]

Probably a rounding. I think Golarion's sun (since the locals call it Sun as well, let's call it Saren) it's meant to be about as big as our Sun, let's say give or take 500 Earth's masses.

Guang wrote:

Since the entry for Triaxus specifically states that all other planets behave according to normal scientific principles, it should be possible.

That's... a bold assertion. The entry's I mean, not yours!

Let's see what Distant Worlds has to say about Triaxus:

Quote:

Triaxus’s distance from the sun varies greatly as it traces its slow path through the heavens. At its farthest point from the system’s center, out past the great gas giants, the sun is little more than a bright spot in the sky

That means that it's about as far from Saren as Saturn is from the Sun (any further and the Sun just looks like a normal star). This implies slightly weird things about the distances of the planets of Saren's System from their star, but the real problem is: how does Triaxus survives going THAT far for centuries and maintain a livable climate?

Adds the Line on Verces (that should be shaken by civilization-destroying storms all the time), the creche worlds of the Sarcesians, some of the moons of the gas giants and f+&%ing (I mean loving) Aucturn... well it's much better than Spelljammer but it isn't exactly hard science.

[James Sutter]

Yeah, it's a rounding issue, since I tried to base Golarion and its sun on our own. Sorry for the confusion! (Honestly, I'm a little surprised that I rounded that much, but oh well... perhaps I was working from older/less accurate information...)

[Guang]

James Sutter wrote:

Yeah, it's a rounding issue, since I tried to base Golarion and its sun on our own. Sorry for the confusion! (Honestly, I'm a little surprised that I rounded that much, but oh well... perhaps I was working from older/less accurate information...)

Yay! Thanks for replying James! I love how so many of Paizo staff are so active on these boards!

[Guang]

Narquelion wrote:

Probably a rounding. I think Golarion's sun (since the locals call it Sun as well, let's call it Saren) it's meant to be about as big as our Sun, let's say give or take 500 Earth's masses.

Guang wrote:

Since the entry for Triaxus specifically states that all other planets behave according to normal scientific principles, it should be possible.

That's... a bold assertion. The entry's I mean, not yours!

Let's see what Distant Worlds has to say about Triaxus:

Here's the quote: "Compared to the other planets, whose orbital speeds correspond neatly to their distance from the sun, Triaxus appears to be moving in slow motion."

Which means that orbital mechanics can be used to confirm the approximate orbits of all but Triaxus and the Diaspora.

[James Jacobs]

Nawtyit wrote:

300,000 is probably just a rounding from 332,900.

This is absolutely correct.

[LazarX]

James Jacobs wrote:

Nawtyit wrote:

300,000 is probably just a rounding from 332,900.

This is absolutely correct.

Now that many astronomers think that our solar system is a product of violent rearrangement, how does that affect your view of the world?

[Guang]

James Sutter wrote:

Yeah, it's a rounding issue, since I tried to base Golarion and its sun on our own. Sorry for the confusion! (Honestly, I'm a little surprised that I rounded that much, but oh well... perhaps I was working from older/less accurate information...)

Here's the distance chart, for anyone else who might be interested:

Aballon .4 AU *Mercury* (same)
Castrovel .63 AU *Venus* .7 AU
Golarion 1 AU
Akiton 1.59 AU *Mars* 1.5 AU
Verces 2.08 AU
(Diaspora) (between 2.08 and 2.92 AU)
Eox 2.92 AU
(Triaxus) (from less than .63 AU to more than 9.65 AU)
Liavara 5.24 AU *Jupiter* 5.2 AU
Bretheda 9.65 AU *Saturn* 9.5 AU
*Uranus* 19.2 AU
*Neptune* 30 AU
Apostae 38.94 AU *Pluto* averages 39 AU, varies 29.7-49.5 AU (also other Kuiper Belt Objects in the 40's)
Aucturn 63 AU *Eris* passes through this range
*Sedna* average 520 AU

Golarion planet location overlaps with our first 6 planets - very genre-apropriate, as the planets discovered in more modern times do not have a direct Golarion distance equivalent. 2 extra planets (Verces, Eox) between Mars/Akiton and Jupiter/Liavara.

That was fun! Makes Verces, Eox, Apostae, and Aucturn seem even more weird. Thanks again James Sutter!

Used the orbit calculator here.
http://web.archive.org/web/20071213121121/http://www.geocities.com/area51/c orridor/8611/mseqstar.htm

[Narquelion]

This is very nice thank you for sharing!

Anyway, I was contesting the much wider assertion that the planets "behave according to normal scientific principles". Liavara and Bretheda have moons with liquid oceans - of water, on their surfaces. Triaxus doesn't get as cold as it should traveling so far from its star. Verces laugh in the face of meteorology. Etc Etc.
Thankfully it's a fantasy world with magic and Shantaks and Aucturn so we can come up with explanations.

[Guang]

Narquelion wrote:

This is very nice thank you for sharing!

Anyway, I was contesting the much wider assertion that the planets "behave according to normal scientific principles". Liavara and Bretheda have moons with liquid oceans - of water, on their surfaces. Triaxus doesn't get as cold as it should traveling so far from its star. Verces laugh in the face of meteorology. Etc Etc.
Thankfully it's a fantasy world with magic and Shantaks and Aucturn so we can come up with explanations.

Agreed. I'm not about to try to prove that dragons can or can't fly because of their wingspan or anything like that. However, the creators of Golarion are very good about being internally consistent, and not handwaving for the sake of handwaving - and I can use that as a springboard.

I only assert the narrower assumption that the orbits of planets in the Golarion system (with the exception of Triaxus) were designed to follow normal scientific orbital mechanics, and therefore other orbital parameters can also be extrapolated.

And glad you liked it too :)

[Zhangar]

Aw, actually confirmed as a rounding.

I was about to suggest that Sarenrae might've used 10% of it to punch Rovagug in the face with =P

[James Sutter]

Narquelion wrote:

This is very nice thank you for sharing!

Anyway, I was contesting the much wider assertion that the planets "behave according to normal scientific principles". Liavara and Bretheda have moons with liquid oceans - of water, on their surfaces. Triaxus doesn't get as cold as it should traveling so far from its star. Verces laugh in the face of meteorology. Etc Etc.
Thankfully it's a fantasy world with magic and Shantaks and Aucturn so we can come up with explanations.

Actually, I designed Verces to be consistent with an astronomy paper I read once about tidally locked planets and how the weather might not be as extreme as you'd think, though I sadly no longer have the link.

But yeah, there's certainly still a fair amount of magic and handwavium going on in the setting. I was heavily *inspired* by real science, but ultimately, "how much fun would it be to adventure here?" was my primary concern. :)

[James Jacobs]

LazarX wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Nawtyit wrote:

300,000 is probably just a rounding from 332,900.

This is absolutely correct.

Now that many astronomers think that our solar system is a product of violent rearrangement, how does that affect your view of the world?

Doesn't affect it at all. I'm not sure why it would.

[Damon Griffin]

Guang wrote:

I'm not about to try to prove that dragons can or can't fly because of their wingspan or anything like that.

FWIW, I always assume that dragons, pegasi and other such creatures have a racial psionic ability to provide lift, and that the wings are only there for thrust and steering. That takes care of the wingspan problem.

We now return to the dicussion of fantasy astrophysics. One of my favorite things about gamers is that threads like this exist.

[Guang]

Looks like we've all come back to earth. Too bad.

[LazarX]

James Jacobs wrote:

LazarX wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Nawtyit wrote:

300,000 is probably just a rounding from 332,900.

This is absolutely correct.

Now that many astronomers think that our solar system is a product of violent rearrangement, how does that affect your view of the world?

Doesn't affect it at all. I'm not sure why it would.

It does have some pretty grim implications for the long term future of this globe. Or in more likely sense, it bring up the question of just how common our apparently nice and tidy solar system is out there. There's some attention being paid to Mercury's orbit as to whether it might start up the whole planet shuffling game again.

[James Jacobs]

LazarX wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

LazarX wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Nawtyit wrote:

300,000 is probably just a rounding from 332,900.

This is absolutely correct.

Now that many astronomers think that our solar system is a product of violent rearrangement, how does that affect your view of the world?

Doesn't affect it at all. I'm not sure why it would.

It does have some pretty grim implications for the long term future of this globe. Or in more likely sense, it bring up the question of just how common our apparently nice and tidy solar system is out there. There's some attention being paid to Mercury's orbit as to whether it might start up the whole planet shuffling game again.

Then it would also have grim implications for the long term future of Golarion.

Neither case is likely to affect us in this lifetime, so I'm not too worried about it.

[Narquelion]

James Sutter wrote:

Actually, I designed Verces to be consistent with an astronomy paper I read once about tidally locked planets and how the weather might not be as extreme as you'd think, though I sadly no longer have the link.

Interesting. Then it wouldn't surprise me if both kinds of tidally locked planets (that is, the stormy kind and Verces-like kind) existed in the real world (and in the Material Plane as well).

James Sutter wrote:

But yeah, there's certainly still a fair amount of magic and handwavium going on in the setting. I was heavily *inspired* by real science, but ultimately, "how much fun would it be to adventure here?" was my primary concern. :)

And you did the right thing! Distant Worlds is a fantastic book.