What are the limitations of the veil spell?

[Le Petite Mort]

I have a Cleric of Trickery with the Master's Illusion ability. The description of the veil spell seems to indicate that I can make my party appear as absolutely anything, but much of the text implies that it was intended to disguise them as other creatures. Could I use it to make them invisible (disguised as air, an inherently invisible creature, etc.) and if so can I make them silent? If they attack while so disguised, do they automatically come out of invisibility or does the enemy just get a disbelieve check? Would they disbelieve the portion on the party member in question, or the whole thing? As I can use this ability in non-sequential rounds, can I drop a disbelieved iteration and start it next round to make everyone invisible again?

This ability didn't strike me as vey useful at first, but RAW there seem to be few limitations on what I do with it. Heck, I could have the entire party ambush a BBEG from invisibility, fight for a round (assuming the thing disbelieves) and then go back to invisibility.

[Dafydd]

Hmm, RAW, there is no limitations. You could disguise the party as Invisible Stalkers or Lurkers in Light, thus being invisible. Additionaly, since these creatures are always invisible, attacking would not reveal the party. Nor would invisibility Purge reveal the party.

You would not be able to make em silent, as you only gain the appearance.

[Rhorik Hogsvard]

It is a glamer...but a mass greater invisibility for 1 hr/level seems beyond the scope of a 6th level spell to me.

[Fergie]

"The subjects look, feel, and smell just like the creatures the spell makes them resemble. "
So I think any "creature" is fair game. Invisible stalkers have Natural Invisibility (Ex), so I think you could turn everyone into an invisible stalker.

"Those who interact with the subjects can attempt Will disbelief saves to see through the glamer, but spell resistance doesn't help."

How often you get to save, what constitutes "interaction", and other questions desperately need a FAQ thread!

[Dafydd]

Rhorik Hogsvard wrote:

It is a glamer...but a mass greater invisibility for 1 hr/level seems beyond the scope of a 6th level spell to me.

The ability is only 1 round per level, that does not need to be consecutive. Much less powerful.

Additionally, once a target saves vs the spell, they would see the real you. A person who saves vs the ability can see through it, until it turns off and back on again.

I would assume interact would cover "be attacked by" "attack" "cast spell targeted at"

Additionally, Mass invisability is 1 min/level, level 7 and allows the people to move up to 180 ft away from you. (Level 8 via the domain, level 5 if you are a summoner)

[Le Petite Mort]

Dafydd wrote:

Rhorik Hogsvard wrote:

It is a glamer...but a mass greater invisibility for 1 hr/level seems beyond the scope of a 6th level spell to me.

The ability is only 1 round per level, that does not need to be consecutive. Much less powerful.

Additionally, once a target saves vs the spell, they would see the real you. A person who saves vs the ability can see through it, until it turns off and back on again.

I would assume interact would cover "be attacked by" "attack" "cast spell targeted at"

Additionally, Mass invisability is 1 min/level, level 7 and allows the people to move up to 180 ft away from you. (Level 8 via the domain, level 5 if you are a summoner)

While the brief duration makes it less powerful per cast, the ability is arguably more useful. A veil spell occupies a 6th level slot and is used once and done. The domain ability can be flickered on and off, allowing the caster to screw with the enemy even after it is disbelieved. Plus, you get it at lvl 8.

EDIT: If I disguise everyone as Invisible Stalkers, can they use their [the stalker's] Stealth skill? Also, are there concrete rules for the benefits to stealth a silence spell offers? I usually keep it prepped.

[Dafydd]

Yeah, my point was the actual spell may last all day, a single save negates it's usefulness, while the ability can be flickered.

As to the Stalker's bonus, you do not get it. You are invisible, so you get the usual +20 (+40 if motionless) but the rest of the stalker's bonus comes from it's skill ranks, it's dex, and it's racial ability, none of which you gain by looking like it.

[Le Petite Mort]

Dafydd wrote:

Yeah, my point was the actual spell may last all day, a single save negates it's usefulness, while the ability can be flickered.

As to the Stalker's bonus, you do not get it. You are invisible, so you get the usual +20 (+40 if motionless) but the rest of the stalker's bonus comes from it's skill ranks, it's dex, and it's racial ability, none of which you gain by looking like it.

That's what I figured. Still, throw a silence on top and you can scare the crap out of some bad guys.